Pianotech

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg). 

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Use Mapes international gold. Roslau has false beats. Trix, who strings for Dale Erwin, switched to Mapes without telling Dale. 3 months later he commented on the lack of false beats. 
I think Roslau came in 4th or 5th in the piano wire tests on Piano world. Mapes was first, Japanese wire second,

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Thanks Keith

Is there a perceivable tone difference from one maker of steel wire from the next?

I have found for instance that Roslau seemed to be more mellow than Yamaha, with the Yamaha steel wire being much more tinny and sharp in comparrison. I know this as I had to replace 2 treble strings that had snapped on a fairly new Yamaha U1. The piano teacher as well as myself can clearly hear this difference. 

Do you know what tone difference there is between Mapes and the Japanese steel wire? Who is the maker of the Japanese steel wire and where/who can you buy it from? 



------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 16:09
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Use Mapes international gold. Roslau has false beats. Trix, who strings for Dale Erwin, switched to Mapes without telling Dale. 3 months later he commented on the lack of false beats.
I think Roslau came in 4th or 5th in the piano wire tests on Piano world. Mapes was first, Japanese wire second,

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

While at Baldwin during the 1980s we did some limited testing of Mapes IG wire (it had just been introduced) vs. Roslau. We found Mapes to be moderately more consistent in terms of breaking strength within a given wire diameter. The tensile strength was moderately lower -- i.e., it was slightly more flexible -- but quite high enough for any modern string scale. At the time, at least, we went with Mapes IG.

I've not tested any Japanese wire specifically but my sense is that it is formulated and processed to have a higher tensile strength than either Mapes or Roslau. (How else do we explain the high tensions that some of their wrapped strings withstand -- at least for a time?) As such, it would have to be some stiffer than either Mapes IG or Roslau and this could explain why it might exhibit more false strings. A bunch of tests would have to be carried out to demonstrate this with any real assurance.

ddf

------------------------------
[Delwin D] Fandrich] [RPT]
[Piano Design & Manufacturing Consultant]
[Fandrich Piano Co., Inc.]
[Olympia] [WA]
[360-515-0119]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 17:20
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Thanks Keith

Is there a perceivable tone difference from one maker of steel wire from the next?

I have found for instance that Roslau seemed to be more mellow than Yamaha, with the Yamaha steel wire being much more tinny and sharp in comparrison. I know this as I had to replace 2 treble strings that had snapped on a fairly new Yamaha U1. The piano teacher as well as myself can clearly hear this difference.

Do you know what tone difference there is between Mapes and the Japanese steel wire? Who is the maker of the Japanese steel wire and where/who can you buy it from?



------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 16:09
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Use Mapes international gold. Roslau has false beats. Trix, who strings for Dale Erwin, switched to Mapes without telling Dale. 3 months later he commented on the lack of false beats.
I think Roslau came in 4th or 5th in the piano wire tests on Piano world. Mapes was first, Japanese wire second,

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Thanks Del for your response.

Keith, are you able to help me find the link to the piano wire test/s on PW?

Is the Japanese wire you are referring made by Suzuki? 

Does anybody know what steel wire Yamaha is using in their current pianos?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 17:40
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

While at Baldwin during the 1980s we did some limited testing of Mapes IG wire (it had just been introduced) vs. Roslau. We found Mapes to be moderately more consistent in terms of breaking strength within a given wire diameter. The tensile strength was moderately lower -- i.e., it was slightly more flexible -- but quite high enough for any modern string scale. At the time, at least, we went with Mapes IG.

I've not tested any Japanese wire specifically but my sense is that it is formulated and processed to have a higher tensile strength than either Mapes or Roslau. (How else do we explain the high tensions that some of their wrapped strings withstand -- at least for a time?) As such, it would have to be some stiffer than either Mapes IG or Roslau and this could explain why it might exhibit more false strings. A bunch of tests would have to be carried out to demonstrate this with any real assurance.

ddf

------------------------------
[Delwin D] Fandrich] [RPT]
[Piano Design & Manufacturing Consultant]
[Fandrich Piano Co., Inc.]
[Olympia] [WA]
[360-515-0119]

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 17:20
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Thanks Keith

Is there a perceivable tone difference from one maker of steel wire from the next?

I have found for instance that Roslau seemed to be more mellow than Yamaha, with the Yamaha steel wire being much more tinny and sharp in comparrison. I know this as I had to replace 2 treble strings that had snapped on a fairly new Yamaha U1. The piano teacher as well as myself can clearly hear this difference.

Do you know what tone difference there is between Mapes and the Japanese steel wire? Who is the maker of the Japanese steel wire and where/who can you buy it from?



------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 16:09
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Use Mapes international gold. Roslau has false beats. Trix, who strings for Dale Erwin, switched to Mapes without telling Dale. 3 months later he commented on the lack of false beats.
I think Roslau came in 4th or 5th in the piano wire tests on Piano world. Mapes was first, Japanese wire second,

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Mark,

Make sure to mic the wire when you remove it. Japanese wire is metric so 13 gauge would measure .030" rather than our standard .031".

Also, interestingly the Max Mathias Steinway manual lists Hamburg scales in metric sizes also. So, if you use Mapes, you will need to compensate accordingly, not just read it off the plate. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 18:33
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Thanks Del for your response.

Keith, are you able to help me find the link to the piano wire test/s on PW?

Is the Japanese wire you are referring made by Suzuki?

Does anybody know what steel wire Yamaha is using in their current pianos?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 17:40
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

While at Baldwin during the 1980s we did some limited testing of Mapes IG wire (it had just been introduced) vs. Roslau. We found Mapes to be moderately more consistent in terms of breaking strength within a given wire diameter. The tensile strength was moderately lower -- i.e., it was slightly more flexible -- but quite high enough for any modern string scale. At the time, at least, we went with Mapes IG.

I've not tested any Japanese wire specifically but my sense is that it is formulated and processed to have a higher tensile strength than either Mapes or Roslau. (How else do we explain the high tensions that some of their wrapped strings withstand -- at least for a time?) As such, it would have to be some stiffer than either Mapes IG or Roslau and this could explain why it might exhibit more false strings. A bunch of tests would have to be carried out to demonstrate this with any real assurance.

ddf

------------------------------
[Delwin D] Fandrich] [RPT]
[Piano Design & Manufacturing Consultant]
[Fandrich Piano Co., Inc.]
[Olympia] [WA]
[360-515-0119]

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 17:20
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Thanks Keith

Is there a perceivable tone difference from one maker of steel wire from the next?

I have found for instance that Roslau seemed to be more mellow than Yamaha, with the Yamaha steel wire being much more tinny and sharp in comparrison. I know this as I had to replace 2 treble strings that had snapped on a fairly new Yamaha U1. The piano teacher as well as myself can clearly hear this difference.

Do you know what tone difference there is between Mapes and the Japanese steel wire? Who is the maker of the Japanese steel wire and where/who can you buy it from?



------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 16:09
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Use Mapes international gold. Roslau has false beats. Trix, who strings for Dale Erwin, switched to Mapes without telling Dale. 3 months later he commented on the lack of false beats.
I think Roslau came in 4th or 5th in the piano wire tests on Piano world. Mapes was first, Japanese wire second,

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Years back I made up a chart giving the dimensions of metric and Imperial wire sizes. 

If you'd like an Excel file of this chart email me privately and I'll send it to you. (I'm not about to try to figure out how to post it via "Higher Logic,")

ddf

------------------------------
[Delwin D] Fandrich] [RPT]
[Piano Design & Manufacturing Consultant]
[Fandrich Piano Co., Inc.]
[Olympia] [WA]
[360-515-0119]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-14-2018 07:52
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Mark,

Make sure to mic the wire when you remove it. Japanese wire is metric so 13 gauge would measure .030" rather than our standard .031".

Also, interestingly the Max Mathias Steinway manual lists Hamburg scales in metric sizes also. So, if you use Mapes, you will need to compensate accordingly, not just read it off the plate.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 18:33
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Thanks Del for your response.

Keith, are you able to help me find the link to the piano wire test/s on PW?

Is the Japanese wire you are referring made by Suzuki?

Does anybody know what steel wire Yamaha is using in their current pianos?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 17:40
From: Delwin Fandrich
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

While at Baldwin during the 1980s we did some limited testing of Mapes IG wire (it had just been introduced) vs. Roslau. We found Mapes to be moderately more consistent in terms of breaking strength within a given wire diameter. The tensile strength was moderately lower -- i.e., it was slightly more flexible -- but quite high enough for any modern string scale. At the time, at least, we went with Mapes IG.

I've not tested any Japanese wire specifically but my sense is that it is formulated and processed to have a higher tensile strength than either Mapes or Roslau. (How else do we explain the high tensions that some of their wrapped strings withstand -- at least for a time?) As such, it would have to be some stiffer than either Mapes IG or Roslau and this could explain why it might exhibit more false strings. A bunch of tests would have to be carried out to demonstrate this with any real assurance.

ddf

------------------------------
[Delwin D] Fandrich] [RPT]
[Piano Design & Manufacturing Consultant]
[Fandrich Piano Co., Inc.]
[Olympia] [WA]
[360-515-0119]

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 17:20
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Thanks Keith

Is there a perceivable tone difference from one maker of steel wire from the next?

I have found for instance that Roslau seemed to be more mellow than Yamaha, with the Yamaha steel wire being much more tinny and sharp in comparrison. I know this as I had to replace 2 treble strings that had snapped on a fairly new Yamaha U1. The piano teacher as well as myself can clearly hear this difference.

Do you know what tone difference there is between Mapes and the Japanese steel wire? Who is the maker of the Japanese steel wire and where/who can you buy it from?



------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 16:09
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Use Mapes international gold. Roslau has false beats. Trix, who strings for Dale Erwin, switched to Mapes without telling Dale. 3 months later he commented on the lack of false beats.
I think Roslau came in 4th or 5th in the piano wire tests on Piano world. Mapes was first, Japanese wire second,

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

I believe hamburg uses roslau and there would be no difference in tone between that and mapes gold.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

The tests were done by some Bulgarian region piano makers. They got samples of every wire made and tested for strength, tonal quality and finish. I thought the list was impressive in that there were a couple of makers that I didn't know. Mapes wire was best in all 3 categories. 
It could have been posted on the original PTG back around 2003.
So David, I was working several days a week in Dale's shop and I was there when Trix said she changed wire to Mapes and I was there about 4 months later when Dale commented on the lack of false beats and was wondering why. I then went and got the full compliment of Mapes wires for a stringing job and it handles differently than the Roslau that I got originally to replace wires that broke. When you wind the coils,,,, not the same rebound.
In my opinion, It must have a different tonal response.
The listening tests of a group of builders thought so too.

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-14-2018 19:56
From: David Love
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I believe hamburg uses roslau and there would be no difference in tone between that and mapes gold.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

I should say those tests were 15 years ago. Manufacturing can change and does. So maybe Roslau upped their equipment, I don't have any new Roslau wire.

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Thank you very much to all for your responses!

Kind regards,

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2018 11:54
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I should say those tests were 15 years ago. Manufacturing can change and does. So maybe Roslau upped their equipment, I don't have any new Roslau wire.

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------

Here is a conversion table for wire gauges, American (AMG) and German (metric).

Note that Röslau makes all its wire in metric sizes. N. American suppliers re-package it and re-label it so that it conforms to or approximates AMG sizes. If you measure closely, you will find the discrepancy. But by now we are probably splitting hairs...

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-16-2018 02:47
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

Thank you very much to all for your responses!

Kind regards,

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2018 11:54
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I should say those tests were 15 years ago. Manufacturing can change and does. So maybe Roslau upped their equipment, I don't have any new Roslau wire.

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-728-2163

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2018 13:54
From: Mark Davis
Subject: Steinway Hamburg Steel Wire

I need to quote one of my clients to replace the tuning pins and strings of their Steinway Model O grand (Hamburg).

I have got the pricing for all materials needed for the job from Steinway Hamburg and the most expensive part/s are the steel wire cut to size.

Can anyone let me know what steel wire Steinway Hamburg uses on their grands, is it special "Steinway" brand or is it Roslau, and if I used Roslau would there be a big difference in the tone between Roslau and the original Steinway steel wire?

------------------------------
Mark Davis
Piano Tuner/Technician
------------------------------