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Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

  • 1.  Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-06-2018 12:41
    Hi All,

    Here's a method I've been using for removing keybushing cloth out of piano keys quick and easy.
    I use a 7/32" mill bit . It takes a little bit of practice, but controlling the drill speed and by developing a "feel" you can remove the felt without damaging to the hole. I can remove all the felts (front rail felt and balance rail felt) between 3 -5 minutes with this method. 
    -chris
    #caveman

    Keybushing removal quick and easy


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    45 2020

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
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  • 2.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-06-2018 19:14
    I see you are not a believer in mortice sizing cauls. You'd rather glaze the side with a hot caul. No thanks.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-06-2018 20:22
    There's no glazing Jon when you use a temp controller.
    And glazing would not be the proper term.
    -chris

    Chernobieff Piano Restorations

    Chris Chernobieff ( pronounced chur-no-bif )
    Associate Member of the Piano Technicians Guild
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    email: chrisppff@gmail.com
    Follow on:  Facebook
    phone: 865-986-7720






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  • 4.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-06-2018 20:47
    I see the drill bit being scurried about and the only word that comes to mind is mangled. What ever floats our boat.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-06-2018 21:46
    It's not a drill bit Jon, and no wood gets mangled either, due to a slow drill speed and technique.



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  • 6.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-07-2018 16:12
    No thanks too 21st century. Scalding water, a glass eye dropper, cast iron pan, stove, brass cauls, and parallel pliers. No need for sizing cauls.

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    Jason Leininger
    Pittsburgh PA
    412-874-6992
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-07-2018 17:28
    Well that's just fine Jason, but i'll be collecting a paycheck from a happy customer while you go through all those steps.
    -chris

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    45 2020

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2018 10:33
    More smiley faces please. It's ok to express concerns and ask questions. It's also ok to keep doing things the way we are comfortable doing them for whatever reasons. Some of us may no longer have steady hands. 

    Fast may not be the goal. Or it may be. 

    In my mind, providing the customer with a quality finished product is the best goal. How we get there may vary from Technician to Technician. 

    Share your ideas. Express concerns. Pluses and minuses for the method. Experience is a teacher. Good and bad. 

    Focus on the end. It'll work out. 

    "PTG - Expand your horizon - Share the vision:
    Providing Quality Service for the World's Pianos

    Good, Better, Best. Never let it rest, 'til the good is better and the better is best."

    To schedule an appointment online click here http://bit.ly/2ErRaav

    George W.R.(Bill) Davis, RPT, SERVP
    The Piano Place GA
    2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE
    Marietta GA 30066
    (770) 778-6881

    Sent from my iPhone



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  • 9.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-09-2018 08:26
    This discussion reminds me of some of our chapter picnics that led up to the demolition derbies. We inflicted indignities of many kinds on junk pianos. One turned out to actually be a viable technique---de-stringing with a blow torch. Not that anyone actually added it to their bag of tricks after that, but it worked well.

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    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-10-2018 21:46
    A little bit of blue flame is also a quick way to disconnect the old bridal straps for disassembly. Put the stack vertically on it's end and apply a weak flame from the bottom and it will gradually creep up and sever the connection of the bridal straps cloth braid. I forget where I saw this mentioned but it has worked for me without incident but I am usually prepared for the worse should an error occur.

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    David Chadwick
    Newark OH
    740-610-6695
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-11-2018 08:23
    The second time I did that I started with the top third and then the middle, and lastly the bottom. Don't ask what happened the first time.

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-11-2018 11:01
    David,
    This technique was in the Journal many years ago. I tried it ONCE. Never again. By the time the burning bridles straps reached half way up the action, the flame grew and scorched the back stops. This is not a professional way to remove bridle straps.
    Roger



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  • 13.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-11-2018 16:13
    A small pair of scissors cuts the strap close to the butt. Unhooking the tabs is no big deal. I would think taht cutting the tapes would take less time than to remove the scorched residue on the action components.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-07-2018 17:56
    Very nice! Thanks for sharing Chris 👍

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    "That Tuning Guy"
    Scott Kerns
    www.thattuningguy.com
    Tunic OnlyPure, TuneLab & Easy Piano Tuner user
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    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-07-2018 19:03
    Hi Chris,

    Could you talk a little more about sizing the mortise with the soldering iron?

    Chris


    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2018 05:44
    HI Chris,

    Thanks for posting this.  Like all new (and radical) methods the best way to evaluate is try it.  I have some spare keys from a piano that went to the landfill.  I'll try your method and see how it goes.

    David Weiss



    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-08-2018 07:33
    Is any wood removed this way? I thought I saw some sawdust, but it is hard to see in the video.

    This might be something to try on those keys that have that white, incredibly sticky, gummy glue that nothing seems to unstick. Otherwise, I would prefer to do it the traditional way to avoid risk of damage.

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    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
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    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-08-2018 09:08
    All,
    This method does require a bit of practice to be able to do it without causing damage. I'll repeat does require practice.
    It also requires using tools that give as much as control as possible. The drill i am using is a variable speed drill that allows me to turn the bit very very slowly with control. I have several mill bits, and i choose the one that works the best for that particular keyboard bushing. Usually it's a bit which is about .005" smaller than the mortise. 

    There's a feel to it. You can feel the felt being removed and/or when wood is being removed. But as i demonstrated, its possible to develop speed, and not damage the wood.

    On the heated cauls. I made several thicknesses of brass cauls on my end mill. I use them on an adjustable heated iron. I select the size and temperature that cleans out the remaining glue, felt, and leaves a nice squared up mortise. From there it's just math to determine the size of bushing cloth that leaves the mortise the right size to receive the front pins. I'm not trying to burn or alter the wood, but the mortises are not always the same size.

    I can easily imagine that possibly some kind of guide could be made that sits on top of the key if one wishes to do so.

    When i do my next key rebushing job i'll take some before and after pics and post them.

    THX
    -chris
    #caveman




    ​

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    45 2020

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
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    Original Message


  • 19.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Member
    Posted 06-08-2018 13:30
    certainly an interesting technique and one to add to the magician bag. i have had bushing come out so easily at times i wondered if they even had been glued. on the other hand some bushings are so stuck they feel like they are welded. i have done steaming with the wet cloth and clothes iron , used the wall paper remover technique etc. one method i have not done and should try is something . chuck behm shows using wedges made of hammer felt soaked in a solution. there are mortising bits made for drill presses that might work as well if the proper size could be chucked in a drill and just lowered up and down to shave pre-wet bushing cloth. i am also wondering if the proper sized attachment in a dremel tool will work either free hand or in the dremel drill press stand.

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2018 14:55
    Back when I published instructions for rebushing keys using the Bushmaster and Accu-cauls, soaking, and/or steaming was the only viable method I had ever been exposed to for bushing removal...neither one of which do I particularly like, but soaking with a felt wedge has been pretty much my go to method for many years.

    Although I have thought about this type of approach I never tried it for the obvious fear of destroying mortices collaterally. Slicing was another method I have played with (without much success). 

    So Chris, I would say that it is worth trying this (you have demonstrated that it is viable) and I am definitely going to do so. I just need some junk keys to practice on (which I do not have at present, having just discarded a set not too long ago).

    These are metal working end mills, right?  Do you have a specific style or model that seems to work best?

    Did you by any chance try this in a drill press before you settled on the hand held drill? If so, what was your assessment of that? 

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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    Original Message


  • 21.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-08-2018 15:20
    Good questions Peter. 
    On the end mill bits. I was just using what I had which are for metal but I use them for various wood operations. The one in the video is course, a 2 spiral 2 tpi. Because of your suggestion I think I will order a finer bit and give it a try. Like maybe a 4 spiral if available in 7/32".
    I had tried various setups on the mill, but it's a pain to line things up. Do- able, but time consuming and a pain. It's just too easy to destroy not just a mortise, but the whole key. Surprisingly less control than freehand because theres no instant control of drill speed like with a hand drill. In a drill press the end mill bit will keep pulling the key upwards, so it needs to be clamped. Again becoming a pain.
    I tried freehand as a fun experiment not expecting it to work. But it did.
    -chris



    Original Message


  • 22.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-11-2018 20:42
    The 7/32" Mill Bit.


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    45 2020

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
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  • 23.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Member
    Posted 06-12-2018 10:31
    I had some mortises that were too small. I used my centering vice on the drill press with the milling bit. Align the key with one of the directions the vice moves.
    I calculated to use a 1/4 bit. With a .146 pin and a .218 mortise (7/32), that leaves you with only .036 to maybe .040 thick bushing cloth, (drill press chatter is a factor).
    You have a better selection of cloth sizes from .040 to .050.
    Mortise sizing cauls work well because the old glue will stabilize the wood and keep it from swelling back up.

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    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-728-2163
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    Original Message


  • 24.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Member
    Posted 06-12-2018 10:40
    My bit was not a spiral,,, It came from the guy across the street who died and Dad bought the tools from his garage. He was a tool and die maker.

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    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-728-2163
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    Original Message


  • 25.  RE: Keybushing Cloth Removal Quick and Easy

    Posted 06-20-2018 00:42
    I got the bit from Grizzly tools. It's only $7.


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    45 2020

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------

    Original Message