Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

  • 1.  Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-18-2018 18:13
    Hello all,

    On more than a few occasions I've found it difficult to remove tight action bracket knobs. (At least that's what I think they're called.) In particular I struggle with the style found on most consoles and spinets of yesteryear. 

    My main problem is gripping the knobs tight enough to turn them, especially if they're really stuck in place. The first time I did this I ended up getting the knob loose, but only after breaking hammer 88! Thankfully it was my own piano, so no harm came of it. 

    Until yesterday I somehow managed to get all the knobs off so the action could be removed for service. But yesterday I couldn't get the first and last knobs to even turn a bit. And as the piano would be used for their tea party, I didn't want to risk breaking hammers, so lined up to do the repair next time. 

    Just curious how y'all have overcome this difficulty, and if you'd have any advice to offer. Thanks!

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-18-2018 18:17
    P.S. These are the little devils:just barely managed to get these ones off....

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-18-2018 18:27
    My 5' Vice-grips do just fine.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-18-2018 18:31
    I'll second Larry's Vise-Grip suggestion. Since this tool maintains the grip for you, all of your muscles can be used to turn the knob.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-20-2018 09:06
    Larry.  Wow.  5' grips.  You must have huge hands.  :-)

    ------------------------------
    Gary Bruce, RPT
    Bruce Piano Service
    Edmond, OK
    405-413-TUNE
    www.brucepiano.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-20-2018 11:41
    Gary, gives lots of leverage 😎

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-18-2018 18:21
    By knobs, I presume you mean the black ones on Yamaha's and Kawai.

    On very tight ones I use Chanel lock pliers.  If you don't want to damage the plastic, wrP a piece of cloth around the knob. 


    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Posted 07-18-2018 19:47
    Get a pair of Screw Pliers from Lee Valley Tools. They are great for damper regulation (turning screws without hunting for the slot). A Roger Jolly tip.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-18-2018 22:02
    Jon --

    Screw pliers!?! Yow! I NEED a pair of those. Thanks!

    But as far as the action bolts, I just use regular pliers but cover the bolt with a piece of cloth so I don't do any damage. Or as little as possible anyway.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Posted 07-19-2018 05:19
    I just use a common pair or pliers with small movements so not to break hammers. That being said, and not to engage in one-upmanship, BUT, what I find extremely difficult to deal with in the action nut arena is the manufacturers that prefer to not spend the extra 38 cents to install a screw stud and nut, rather than a six-inch long wood screw (who does that - Wurlitzer maybe - others certainly?). First of all, I think they epoxied those rascals in there back in '52 when the piano was built, and then the heads/slots deform pretty darn quickly if you don't have some custom perfect fitting screwdriver. Even if they cooperate, if you don't have your electric screwdriver with you, your arms will feel it that evening. I DON'T LIKE THEM!

    I'm not sure even those otherwise very nice looking screw pliers (I do have to get a pair!) would be any help with these nasty screws!

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-19-2018 05:49
    Maybe it's just the damp climate where you are, but I don't have any trouble turning Wurly screws, but the fact is that when you do they break. Usually at or below the surface of the plate. Assuming you can get the broken piece out, what do you replace it with? I've used lag bolts, but I don't carry them with me, and finding replacement screws requires a trip to a specialty hardware store or ebay or..? I cringe when I have to remove the action on one of these.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego


    Terrence Farrell
    I just use a common pair or pliers with small movements so not to break hammers. That being said, and not to engage in one-upmanship, BUT, what I find extremely difficult to deal with in the action nut arena is the manufacturers that prefer to not spend the extra 38 cents to install a screw stud and nut, rather than a six-inch long wood screw (who does that - Wurlitzer maybe - others certainly?). First of all, I think they epoxied those rascals in there back in '52 when the piano was built, and then the heads/slots deform pretty darn quickly if you don't have some custom perfect fitting screwdriver. Even if they cooperate, if you don't have your electric screwdriver with you, your arms will feel it that evening. I DON'T LIKE THEM!

    I'm not sure even those otherwise very nice looking screw pliers (I do have to get a pair!) would be any help with these nasty screws!

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505





  • 12.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Posted 07-19-2018 06:43
    Well, we're getting off topic here... but for broken bracket screws, I use TimberLock fasteners.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Posted 07-19-2018 06:49
    Getting back to the topic. If one were to have the resources; once the knobs are off the piano, you could cut a slot into them for a screw driver. Maybe you could carry a set and swap them out as you go. A Dremel Tool with a cut-off wheel would do the trick.

    I think I'll do that myself. The next piano destined for the landfill will have the fasteners salvaged and fashioned in the shop vice.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page


  • 14.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-19-2018 10:56
    Light bulb!

    Thats a great idea Jon! I think I'll give it a go the next time I come to one.

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-20-2018 01:07
    ​Yes, and when the six inch screws break off flush with the plate, they are a royal pain.

    ------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-19-2018 07:27
    I recently had that problem on an old Baldwin. I put a drop of Protek just behind the knob to lubricate the thread. I managed to get it off.

    ------------------------------
    Mary Beth Tawes
    Sterling VA
    703-801-4763
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Removing Tight Action Bracket Knobs

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-19-2018 11:59
    I have to go with the small vise-grips. They are already in bag and handy, and the tiny marks they put into the knobs are functionally irrelevant. When you put them back on you aren't going to crank them down again so as to need the grips again...are you???

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------