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My piano key pounding machine

  • 1.  My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-01-2018 13:09
    Well the first test was a success, and I am now making all the parts. Making this machine is going to cost me a GRAND total of about $16. Not bad, since i thought it was going to cost about $250. I had salvaged a treadmill motor last year, and all the wood is from an old piano that was headed towards the dump. The 5/8" dowels cost the $16. Fun project that's for sure.
    -chris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCHdPeKykK0

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    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
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  • 2.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-03-2018 21:36
    I got my key pounder finished.
    If you watch the new video, try not to jump out of your seat.
    -chris

    https://youtu.be/91T1SSnei-0

    ------------------------------
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-03-2018 21:53
    Thanks for the warning.
    I need one of those to demo the piano when I'm finished. "Here you go, Mrs. McGillacudhy. I'll play you something to show you how nice it sounds now.." LOL!!

    Paul McCloud
    San Diego



    Chris Chernobieff Aug 3, 2018 9:36 PM


    I got my key pounder finished.
    If you watch the new video, try not to jump out of your seat.
    -chris


    https://youtu.be/91T1SSnei-0

    ------------------------------
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720





  • 4.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-04-2018 06:00
    Chris, I watched your video.  The paddy wagon will arriving at your house within the hour to take you to the looney bin....  :-)

    Will Truitt

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    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
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  • 5.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-04-2018 08:34
    ..it's only 87 keys. C8 will go out of tuuuune faster than the others...��

    -Phil Bondi
      








  • 6.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-04-2018 09:45
    How did you make sure the dowels, which seem to be segments connecting to the cam, would not slip?  Or, is the main dowel shaft continuos, with the cam assemblies applied to the main continuous shaft?

    I think its a good low cost idea...looney bin not withstanding. My own proximity to the looney bin can sometimes be somewhat tenuous. But. this is something any good rebuilder needs. My fear with the wood based design is setting this thing up to make a racket overnight, it might blow up as things inevitably wear. I like the basic idea.


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 7.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-04-2018 10:16
    There was a bit of a learning curve when it came to how all the parts would perform. But, I believe that a wood one when made with precision will work and last.
    I made the camshaft with an offset of 3/8". I wish I had made it 5/8". I would prefer that the padded striker's would leave the key a little to reset.
    The dowels are glued into the cam then a wood pin is glued in to eliminate any slippage on the camshaft. Also, when I make an improved one, I'm going to go ahead and make the cam with a laminated maple ply and a little bigger. It is crucial also that the camshaft be perfectly straight, mine wasnt, so the bearings are not lasting. 
    Another problem is the pin that connects the piston to the cam. The ones I have now want to slide out. 
    One more problem is that the guide for the piston should be lower.
    The idea here though, is to work out the bugs and come up with a reliable inexpensive key pounder. I was expecting that the first one would have problems. Once I have a good design, I'll draw up the plans so it is available.





  • 8.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-04-2018 10:27
    How have you thought about the overall length of the unit as it sits on the key bed? 

    I discarded a key level idea I had been working on which used the cheek block space to allow the level to sit on the key bed. The problem was, that even though all white key head scales are pretty close to the same, the available area in the cheek block space differs from piano to piano. Add to that,  the location of front rail pins that stick into the cheeks,  limits what can sit on the key bed in the cheek block space from piano to piano. The unpredictability of this cheek block space defeated my key level idea.  Your machine seems to sit in this same unpredictable cheek block area.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-04-2018 10:58
    Jim, 
    I was concerned about that too, but it turns out that this was an easy problem to solve.
    My key pounder doesn't sit on the keybed directly. It sits on blocks and the blocks are a little higher than any obstacles. This is do-able because the height of the key pounder is adjustable. 
    -chris





  • 10.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-11-2018 00:39
    **UPDATE**
    Third times the charm. Rebuilt my key pounder to fix the exhibited problems. Turns out that the home depot dowels,that were suppose to be hardwood ,wasn't.  Probably was using 5/8" fir dowels.  So, i decided to go with a 1" Hickory dowel. That fixed the torque and creaking problem.
    I also figured out a better way to make the cams more true. Tricky piece to make. Made those out of hardrock maple with a 5/8" dowel. Ended up making a 1/2" offset.
    The adjustable sides were also improved on. Just having two slots wasn't enough as it could still tilt. So i ended up milling a sliding slot in between that acts as a guide. Big improvements.
    When i shot the next short video it had been running for two hours and not a single problem occurred. 
    Very happy with it.
    Very noisy though!!!
    -chris
    https://youtu.be/gNzgwxCoiG0

    ------------------------------
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-11-2018 22:04
    **UPDATE no.2**

    Here are a couple of pics of a new set of Ronsens after being in the pounding machine for 4 hours. ​Quite the difference in tone too!!
    I'm really loving this thing.  I guess there is no absolute time of how long to pound the hammers, i just kept checking every hour. After four hours they looked good enough to me. I have no idea how long the factories do it. 





    -chris

    ------------------------------
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-12-2018 05:51
    Chris, no doubt the machine works.  

    I am struck by how deep and long the string grooves are.  If I slid that action out of a customer's piano, I would guess it had 10 to 15 years of playing on it.  I also have to wonder if you are also beginning to introduce string fatigue by playing it so hard and so long.  And wearing the action parts and keys as well.  

    Do you have any control of the amount of force that the machine uses when it strikes the keys?  
      
    Too hard and too long is my vote.  Too much of  a good thing is not wonderful.

    Will Truitt

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    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-12-2018 07:57
    William,
    Thanks for the feedback. All good points. Yes, the slower speed is also a softer blow. Faster speed is harder. On the next piano, I will be more inclined to stop at 2 hours. 
    -Chris
    Key pounding newbie.





  • 14.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-12-2018 09:17

    You asked "I have no idea how long the factories do it." When I interned at Steingraber in Germany, they put their machine on at the end of the day and let it play overnight.  Here is a short video of the pounder in action.



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    Jim Fariss, RPT
    Black Forest Piano
    Black Forest, Colorado
    (719) 425-8845
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  • 15.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 08-13-2018 16:26
    Mr. Fariss,
    Thanks for sharing. Clearly a lot less strikes per minute.
    -chris





  • 16.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 09-09-2018 12:01
    ***Key Pounder Update****
    This thing is proving itself to be ever reliable. I'm posting this update for two reasons.  First, after using this thing on a couple pianos, it looks like an hour is fine to assure all strikes are striking in phase. Of course, this is performed after other mating operations such as string leveling and some hammer work. 
    Second, i'm ditching youtube, google, and facebook  due to their censorship practices. I also got a new email address because gmail is not private at all. After much searching i chose protonmail.com. It is based out of Switzerland and is even immune from the US Courts. Now that's private! As an alternative to youtube i chose Real.Video.com.

    Piano Key Pounder on the Grinnell Grand Piano

    Peace all.
    Chris
    #caveman

    ------------------------------
    I don't always play the piano, but when i do, I prefer my own.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    chrisppff@gmail.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Member
    Posted 09-10-2018 08:10
    Thank you for standing against censorship! This is a slippery slope: exactly who gets to decide what's "legitimate" information? How can we be so certain that future censors will be as supposedly enlightened as we are? Will the public eventually become immune to censorship and see it as routine?

    It is truly Orwellian to see censorship celebrated. If any of us disagrees with anything said or written, then we can use our critical thinking skills to disarm it. If we fear that we don't have adequate critical thinking skills to do this, then that would be the real problem.

    Signed, a former philosophy major.



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    Don Dalton
    Chester VT

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  • 18.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Member
    Posted 09-10-2018 12:57
    now if you can find a way to stop annoying adds from popping up even ones with voice tracks you need to listen to for the first few seconds I am interested. Way too much tracking and propaganda to shape your choices and accept theirs. If you have Alexia dump it she listens 24 x7
    just saw today how mlb is going to use fingerprints and facial recognition to improve the "user experience" . its the boiled frog syndrome. sooner or later the frog gets boiled as the heat is repeatedly turned up. if you have a smart phone someone is tracking you even if you turned the features off. censorship is a dangerous thing as pointed out -who gets to decide. someone writes the code to flag words "banned" by the censor(s) . social media is out of control...

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 19.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-10-2018 14:05
    Chris's machine is quite impressive, and the Goldberg recording sounds better than good.  Additionally he certainly has the right to share his dissatisfaction with the up-to-now-ubiquitous platforms for social communication as well as the useful information regarding alternatives, however, as becomes apparent, the thread moves off topic and, in fact, away from pianos.  If continued pursuit of this 'sub-thread' is desired, it should at very least be re-titled. Ideally, it would be redirected to the appropriate 'community' but there doesn't seem to be one.  I understand the intense desire to bear witness for one's views in these times, but that usually serves to usher in some significant disruptive chaos on these lists.  
    I'm not trying to censor the discussion but, rather, direct it to an appropriate space or otherwise identify it.  The current tools at our disposal would seem to be either a subject line marked as OT (Off Topic) or the seldom (if ever) used "Mark As Inappropriate".  Humph? I wonder what would happen if I pressed that button.  :)

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    David Skolnik [RPT]
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565
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  • 20.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Posted 09-10-2018 14:28
    David,
    I'll take those two in a row wonderful compliments! Thanks for making my day!!!
    -chris

    ------------------------------
    I don't always play the piano, but when i do, I prefer my own.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: My piano key pounding machine

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-10-2018 15:27
    They were sincerely proffered. 
    Maybe I should have sent the rest of it in a separate post. ?
    (I know, you'll add "or not at all").

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    David Skolnik [RPT]
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565
    ------------------------------