CAUT

  • 1.  C&A Pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-10-2018 21:30
    Hi All-

    Does anyone know when or how specifically in the manufacturing process that a piano gets to be labeled as a C&A instrument?  Are they chosen from the beginning and set aside as such, or during the process of building are certain ones selected for various reasons?   There must be some process of selection and I don't believe it's random.  Our department has been approved with funds to select a new concert grand for the hall and since we already have plenty of "nice" pianos, the faculty are determined to hunt down and find something really special.  This question about C&A pianos came up and I admit I really don't know exactly how that works.  We're open to remanufactured pianos also, but only finished projects this time.  There is also interest in a Hamburg D if an appropriate, relatively new one was available for sale, but who knows.  I know that's unlikely. 

    thanks!
    Dennis.  

    --
    Dennis Johnson, R.P.T.
    Piano Technician
    Music Dept.
    St. Olaf College


  • 2.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-10-2018 23:00

    Dennis,

    I'm presuming you are referring to Steinway. I was told by a former Steinway employee maybe 10 years ago that someone from the C&A department in Manhattan would go to the factory from time to time and look over what pianos were available in the selection room. The tech would evaluate the pianos available primarily from the standpoint of the belly work; tonal quality, sustain, power.

    Then the piano would be taken to the basement and the action would be reworked (often with new action parts, and almost always with new hammers) and the piano would be marked with a 'C' number.

    This was one person's version of it, but it was from a person who had worked for some years in the concert department, so it should be accurate.

    For Kawai America almost every Shigeru concert grand we receive from Japan is opened and prepped for concert use. Really, though, every piano is prepped in Japan to be performance ready, so we don't have to do all that much work to get them ready – we sometimes change the voicing level for particular needs, and tweak the action to make up for the changes that happen during shipping. We only receive 4 or 5 Shigeru EX pianos each year for all of North America, so we tend to really need to put them to use for a while before they are sold. And we sometimes do run out of concert pianos!



    ------------------------------
    Don Mannino RPT
    Kawai America Corporation
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-10-2018 23:07
    Mr. Johnson,

    At Steinway It  was random. Rarely the Chief Concert Technician would select a specific piano for a specific venue. Normally the C&A dept had a number of pianos budgeted for their use and they were sent as they became available off the production line. In my day they would get around 30 to 40 hrs of prep then be sent out for use. The late Irene Wlodarski would assign the instrument a C number ( CD, CB, etc.) and the C&A techs would replace the serial number on the plate with the C number while adding the number to the top lid. The C&A numbers were recycled as the instruments were retired to be sold by the dealerships. Things are different now but the way C&A stock is selected hasn't changed according to my latest information.

    ------------------------------
    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Posted 12-10-2018 23:21
    I would love to have an answer to this also! UCLA just bought a Yamaha CFX C&A piano from our local Yamaha dealer for our Schoenberg stage. Excellent standout piano!

    While the answers come “pouring in” I’d love to hazard a guess. No doubt/question (and I think manufacturing variability even holds true even with mass-produced pianos, because there is variability in the woods and other materials and manufactured items put into the piano—and also, the human factor is at work with various aspects of manufacture—but moreso with the more “hand built” pianos): some pianos are bound to roll off the assembly line superior in tone, balance, tuning stability, sustain and carry, regulability, regulation, etc.—standouts. My guesses: at a point, newly manufactured pianos are evaluated and some of the best ones are just kept as C&A pianos. Or, during manufacture, pianos which are “turning out better” early on are given to the best “teams” of assemblers, stringers, regulators, voicers. Or, pianos which are among the better and best ones coming off the assembly line are chosen to be C & A pianos for additional regulation and voicing refinements. These standout pianos are “tricked out” even further to become top of the line excellent pianos.

    It will be interesting to find out the various ways C & A pianos become the “chosen ones”.


    Sean McLaughlin
    Lead Piano Technician
    UCLA Herb Alpert School of Music
    Los Angeles, California
    Piano shop/office 310-825-7058




  • 5.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Posted 12-12-2018 01:03
    To find "something really special" requires two things:

    1. Somebody who can actually recognize a "really special" belly, regardless of how the piano is prepped, has to find such an instrument and

    2. Somebody has to have the skill, and be given the time, to bring touch and tone up to its full potential for performance. This is the one thing that does set the C&A pianos apart: you can be sure that at least at one point they have been set up very, very well for performance. After that, the level of preparation depends on how the piano has been maintained.

    "Really special" instruments are definitely out there. I hope you can find one.

    Doug

    Doug Wood, RPT
    206-935-5797






  • 6.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Posted 12-12-2018 01:20
    Hi, Doug,

    Spot on.

    Kind regards.

    Horacr


      Original Message




  • 7.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-12-2018 05:53
    I appreciate the advice to Dennis about having someone who can recognize a "really special" piano.  That is an important factor in the equation and it's good to be stated as general information.  But, Dennis is one of those people who knows the difference.  If you want a schooling in fine instruments, take a trip to St. Olaf and examine his work.  

    I find his question quite important for schools looking for inventory and wanting to expertly explore all possibilities.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-12-2018 10:38

    Hi again-

    Thanks Tim.  You're kind, and Doug is correct.  Safe to say it's a complicated pursuit with lots of strong feelings along the way. Deep down, we all want to support craftsmanship, especially American Craftsmanship,  and have made our careers perfecting our own.  It seems that the requirement and ability to see beyond the level of prep as demonstrated in showrooms today is more essential than ever before.  I suppose that is across the board, and brought on by increasing economic pressures globally as well as local challenges on a smaller scale.  Unfortunately, too often we technicians get caught in the middle trying to explain this reality to our faculty and clients who simply cannot wrap their heads around the high cost for so much unrealized potential.   

    best,
    d. 
    --
    Dennis Johnson, R.P.T.
    Piano Technician
    Music Dept.
    St. Olaf College





  • 9.  RE: C&A Pianos

    Posted 12-12-2018 23:05
    Just to be very clear: I really meant no disrespect to Dennis, or anyone else here. I phrased my previous post intentionally for several reasons. Being the eternal optimist, I hope it might be useful in explaining to other members of a "selection team" just what is important. Something from another, presumably disinterested, institution. I am also hoping to help those among us who have not had the great good fortune to be involved and/or witness a lot of selections. And I don't actually know Dennis outside of this forum and so I am disinclined to speak for or about him.

    Respectfully,

    Doug

    Doug Wood, RPT
    206-935-5797