PianoTech Archive

  • 1.  Lehman/Bach Temperament

    Posted 02-06-2007 15:12
    From Jon Page <jonpage@comcast.net>
    
    Yesterday I tuned this temperament on a Baldwin L
    for someone who has preferred Broadwood's Best
    for many years. I received an e-mail just now:
           I love the tuning - want it this way forever!!!!!!
    -- 
    
    Regards,
    
    Jon Page
    


  • 2.  Lehman/Bach Temperament

    Posted 02-06-2007 18:49
    From A440A@aol.com
    
    Jon writes:
    
    << Yesterday I tuned this temperament on a Baldwin L
    for someone who has preferred Broadwood's Best
    for many years. I received an e-mail just now:
           I love the tuning - want it this way forever!!!!!! >>
    
           I would be interested in their response to J. Charles Francis's 
    interpretation of the Bach squiggle.  I find that it is smoother sounding in the 
    more extreme keys of E and B, while still providing a lot of contrast and 
    consonance in all the right places.  
     
    
    Ed Foote RPT 
    http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
    www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
     
    


  • 3.  Lehman/Bach Temperament

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-06-2007 19:09
    From "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
    
    FYI When departing from ET, I have been using the Equal Beating Victorian
    Temperament a fair amount lately (when I have the opportunity to deviate)
    with favorable responses. 
    
    David Love
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net 
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    
    Jon writes:
    
    << Yesterday I tuned this temperament on a Baldwin L
    for someone who has preferred Broadwood's Best
    for many years. I received an e-mail just now:
           I love the tuning - want it this way forever!!!!!! >>
    
     
    


  • 4.  Lehman/Bach Temperament

    Posted 02-07-2007 05:14
    From A440A@aol.com
    
    Jon writes: 
     
    >>Where doe someone find these offsets?<< 
    
    I received the following, some time ago, from our West Coast tempering maven, 
    who, I believe, got them from the "Tuning" list.  I have used this tuning for 
    some of my hard core clients and they feel like it opens up another world of 
    music for their pre-1800 repertoire.  Others have enjoyed it on their much 
    less advanced repertoire,(you know, where they never get past three accidentals!) 
     
    > From: Paul Bailey 
     
    >> Subject: Tuning Interpretation of Bach's '1722 Seal' as Beats Per 
    >> Second
    >>
    >> (from TUNING list)
      From: "J. Charles Francis" <Francis@datacomm.ch>
    >> Subject: Tuning Interpretation of Bach's '1722 Seal' as Beats Per Second
     
    >> A short article (PDF) on this topic is available in tuning_files2:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning_files2/files/Charles/Bach_Seal.pdf
     
    >> For non-members, you can download at the following link:
    >>
    >> http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/Bach_Seal.pdf
     
    >> Kind regards
    >> Charles
     
     
    >>  offsets  corrected for A=0.0
    >> C    8.128
    >> B    -2.582
    >> A#   5.959
    >> A    0.0
    >> G#   2.049
    >> G    5.431
    >> F#   -1.861
    >> F    7.914
    >> E    -0.822
    >> D#   4.004
    >> D    4.278
    >> C#   0.0942
    >>
    
    Ed Foote RPT 
    http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
    www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
     
    


  • 5.  Lehman/Bach Temperament

    Posted 02-07-2007 09:13
      |   view attached
    From "John Dutton" <duttonjw@gmail.com>
    
    Two other places to find offsets for many different temperaments are at
    <www.tunelab-world.com> (look under documentation) and at
    <http://www.netcat.li/instrument-tuner/TemperamentTables.html>.  I have also
    been using the EBVT with success.
    
    John Dutton
    
    

    Attachment(s)



  • 6.  Bach seal (was Re: Lehman/Bach Temperament)

    Posted 02-08-2007 12:13
    From Brad Lehman <bpl@umich.edu>
    
    Let's be perfectly clear: all of the numbers given below have absolutely 
    nothing to do with my work.  Those are just a new temperament made up in 
    2006 by Charles Francis, assigning a bunch of ratios based on Bach's 
    seal (and Francis's out-Kellnering of Kellner's own esotericism...which 
    to me seems arbitrary and meaningless).
    
    I don't believe that Bach's seal encodes any manner of temperament, or 
    has anything in particular to do with music.  I believe it's just a 
    nicely-designed seal with the initials "JSB" in it, plus their mirror 
    image, plus a crown on top to make it fancier.
    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/BachSeal.gif
    
    Some of my comments about that Bach seal are on my FAQ page #3 here:
    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/faq3.html
    
    "What about Kellner's claim to have found important 5s and 7s in Bach's 
    seal, indicating five tempered 5ths and seven pure 5ths? What of it? One 
    could just as easily claim that there are numbers 1, 3, 3, 5 in the 
    crown of it, and that they indicate the one wide 5th (A#-F), the three 
    1/12 PC 5ths (C#-G#-D#-A#), the three pure 5ths (E-B-F#-C#), and the 
    five 1/6 PC 5ths (F-C-G-D-A-E) of my proposed temperament here. And it's 
    from the same year--1722--as the WTC title page! Wowee!"
    
    "But esoteric games of this sort are not sufficient evidence of 
    anything, on their own because the interpretation is so arbitrary, 
    against other equally arbitrary readings of the same monogram. Plenty 
    has been made of the various 14s hidden in this same design. What do 
    they prove? What do they disprove against other readings?"
    
    "Bach's strongest medium of expression, as an expert musician, was 
    musical sound; I believe we should judge evidence and interpretations by 
    the way Bach's sound is handled. Real sound at good instruments. Not 
    esoteric and arbitrary Quatsch!"
    
    
    Bradley Lehman
    http://www.larips.com
    
    
    ===========
    
    A440A@aol.com wrote:
    > Jon writes: 
    >  
    >>> Where doe someone find these offsets?<< 
    > 
    > I received the following, some time ago, from our West Coast tempering maven, 
    > who, I believe, got them from the "Tuning" list.  I have used this tuning for 
    > some of my hard core clients and they feel like it opens up another world of 
    > music for their pre-1800 repertoire.  Others have enjoyed it on their much 
    > less advanced repertoire,(you know, where they never get past three accidentals!) 
    >  
    >> From: Paul Bailey 
    >  
    >>> Subject: Tuning Interpretation of Bach's '1722 Seal' as Beats Per 
    >>> Second
    >>>
    >>> (from TUNING list)
    >   From: "J. Charles Francis" <Francis@datacomm.ch>
    >>> Subject: Tuning Interpretation of Bach's '1722 Seal' as Beats Per Second
    >  
    >>> A short article (PDF) on this topic is available in tuning_files2:
    >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tuning_files2/files/Charles/Bach_Seal.pdf
    >  
    >>> For non-members, you can download at the following link:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/Bach_Seal.pdf
    >  
    >>> Kind regards
    >>> Charles
    >  
    >  
    >>>  offsets  corrected for A=0.0
    >>> C    8.128
    >>> B    -2.582
    >>> A#   5.959
    >>> A    0.0
    >>> G#   2.049
    >>> G    5.431
    >>> F#   -1.861
    >>> F    7.914
    >>> E    -0.822
    >>> D#   4.004
    >>> D    4.278
    >>> C#   0.0942
    >>>
    > 
    > Ed Foote RPT 
    > http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html
    > www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/well_tempered_piano.html
    >  
    > 
    > 
    > 
    


  • 7.  Lehman/Bach Temperament

    Posted 02-08-2007 11:55
    From Brad Lehman <bpl@umich.edu>
    
    Jon Page wrote:
    > Yesterday I tuned this temperament on a Baldwin L
    > for someone who has preferred Broadwood's Best
    > for many years. I received an e-mail just now:
    >       I love the tuning - want it this way forever!!!!!!
    
    Terrific!
    
    I use it almost "all the time," too -- on my harpsichords and clavichord 
    here, and on our church's piano.  (The only time when I don't use it is 
    when I'm playing earlier harpsichord music that was written for meantone.)
    
    I'm giving a lecture and two full-length harpsichord recitals in Chico 
    CA next month, featuring all of this.  Details here:
    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/2007mar13.htm
    
    For any needing the offsets to do this electronically (I always do it by 
    ear, no device), they're here:
    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/math.html
    
    A (0), Bb (+3.9), B (0), C (+5.9), C# (+3.9), D (+2),
    Eb (+3.9), E (-2), F (+7.8), F# (+2), G (+3.9), G# (+3.9).
    
    Recordings are listed here:
    http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/recordings.html
    Brautigam's disc of Beethoven sonatas 4-7 there, on fortepiano, makes a 
    good demo for any pianists who might want to hear what it's like on 
    piano....  Robert Hill's disc of WF Bach's fortepiano music is 
    forthcoming sometime this year, I believe: he sent me one sample track 
    so far.
    
    Also, this page by Ross Duffin
    http://music.cwru.edu/duffin/Norton/Letter.html
    offers Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" plus some Brahms, Debussy, and 
    Liszt further showing its flexibility, even in extremely chromatic music.
    
    
    Bradley Lehman
    http://www.larips.com