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Fazioli voicing

  • 1.  Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-29-2012 23:09

    One of the highlights of West-Pac was the class given by head Fazioli tech Claudio Valent, focusing on voicing. I thought it would be nice to document the Fazioli procedure here as a resource. 

    Perhaps the most striking feature of the Fazioli voicing process is its consistency and precision, achieved in part by drawing lines along the sides of all the hammers, to define areas of the shoulder. As a starting point, lines are drawn on the sides of hammers at the end of each section. First, a line is drawn down the center of the molding and extended to the tip of the crown. Then a line is drawn perpendicular to that line, extending out to shoulders on each side of the hammer, establishing "3 o'clock and 9 o'clock" positions. The placement of this line is 3 mm below the tip of the molding, or, where underfelt is present, 3 mm below the top of the underfelt. (If someone understands this differently, please horn in. That is what I gathered, and my question to try to clarify was brushed off). And finally, lines are drawn bisecting both the right angles, extending to the shoulders at a "1:30" and "10:30" position. (I am not sure what they do in the top couple octaves - seems like it would either be an extension of lines from lower in the piano, or a somewhat different scheme. But it didn't come up).

    Using the ends of each of these lines as a reference, a straightedge is laid along the hammer shoulders, and lines are drawn at the center of the crown, and at each of the positions I mentioned: 9;00, 10:30, 1:30 and 3:00. An additional line is drawn on either side of the 12:00 center line, 3 mm from that line graduating down to 2 mm in the high treble.

    All voicing is done using #5 needles. Initial pre-voicing is done using a 3 needle tool with 10 mm long needles, inserted fully in a pressing manner (not jabbed). Five strokes are inserted on either side of the hammer in the areas between 9:00 and 10:30, 1:30 and 3:00. Insertion is according to the Renner pattern, aiming at a spot midway between the molding and the felt surface, down toward the staple area of the hammer. IOW, the insertions are at varying angles, all aiming toward the same spot. And the insertion points are spaced as evenly as possible within the defined area.

    Three subsequent needle insertions are done with different lengths of needles, in different, overlapping areas. First, 8 mm needles are inserted in the same area as the 10 mm needles (9:00 to 10:30) but at a different angle, this time entering the felt at a right angle to its surface (headed straight in). Something like 7 - 10 insertions each side, evenly spaced. The second insertion uses 6 mm needles, and begins overlapping what was just done, maybe from 10:00 up to 11:00, again inserted at a right angle to the surface. Finally, 4 mm needles are used, again overlapping the 6 mm needles a bit, and going up to the top line. 

    For the first two insertions (10 mm and 8 mm), a somewhat wider spaced voicing tool is used, wider than most standard tools, and the needle insertions are in line with one another. For the 6mm and 4 mm insertions, a narrower spaced tool (the most common spacing I think) is used, with insertions staggered from side to side, forming a diagonal grid.

    Following needle insertions, the hammers are filed through four grits, 120, 240, 400, 800 (I think). Leveling and mating as usual. Then listen and refine voicing with further needling as needed. Watching him on the screen, it looked like he went all the way up to the middle of the crown in some cases, angling out a bit. And then some shallow chopstick work on the crown itself.

    Playing the piano to listen, he played three volume levels, more or less FFF, mf and PP. The louder were for deeper needling, the PP for chopstick. 

    Alignment of hammers and una corda position is somewhat unusual: the corner of each hammer is chamfered (filed), and the una corda position set so that on a soft blow the corner does not make the third string sound, but on a hard blow it does. 

    More could be added, and perhaps someone else who was there will care to chime in.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Fazioli voicing

    Posted 02-29-2012 23:42
    Hi, Fred, FWIW, this is essentially the same technique described/published by Schimmel some years ago, and is also used on Bechstein and Bluthner. Additionally, I find it generally useful on S&S Hamburg hammers, with a _slightly_ greater emphasis on pointing the needles (especially in the earlier FF stages of the process) more toward the molding than is indicated here (and by those noted above). Thank you very much for sending this along, Fred...truly very helpful. Kind regards. Horace At 08:08 PM 2/29/2012, you wrote: >One of the highlights of West-Pac was the class given by head >Fazioli tech Claudio Valent, focusing on voicing. I thought it would >be nice to document the Fazioli procedure here as a resource. >Perhaps the most striking feature of the Fazioli voicing process is >its consistency and precision, achieved in part by drawing lines >along the sides of all the hammers, to define areas of the shoulder. >As a starting point, lines are drawn on the sides of hammers at the >end of each section. First, a line is drawn down the center of the >molding and extended to the tip of the crown. Then a line is drawn >perpendicular to that line, extending out to shoulders on each side >of the hammer, establishing "3 o'clock and 9 o'clock" positions. The >placement of this line is 3 mm below the tip of the molding, or, >where underfelt is present, 3 mm below the top of the underfelt. (If >someone understands this differently, please horn in. That is what I >gathered, and my question to try to clarify was brushed off). And >finally, lines are drawn bisecting both the right angles, extending >to the shoulders at a "1:30" and "10:30" position. (I am not sure >what they do in the top couple octaves - seems like it would either >be an extension of lines from lower in the piano, or a somewhat >different scheme. But it didn't come up). >Using the ends of each of these lines as a reference, a straightedge >is laid along the hammer shoulders, and lines are drawn at the >center of the crown, and at each of the positions I mentioned: 9;00, >10:30, 1:30 and 3:00. An additional line is drawn on either side of >the 12:00 center line, 3 mm from that line graduating down to 2 mm >in the high treble. >All voicing is done using #5 needles. Initial pre-voicing is done >using a 3 needle tool with 10 mm long needles, inserted fully in a >pressing manner (not jabbed). Five strokes are inserted on either >side of the hammer in the areas between 9:00 and 10:30, 1:30 and >3:00. Insertion is according to the Renner pattern, aiming at a spot >midway between the molding and the felt surface, down toward the >staple area of the hammer. IOW, the insertions are at varying >angles, all aiming toward the same spot. And the insertion points >are spaced as evenly as possible within the defined area. >Three subsequent needle insertions are done with different lengths >of needles, in different, overlapping areas. First, 8 mm needles are >inserted in the same area as the 10 mm needles (9:00 to 10:30) but >at a different angle, this time entering the felt at a right angle >to its surface (headed straight in). Something like 7 - 10 >insertions each side, evenly spaced. The second insertion uses 6 mm >needles, and begins overlapping what was just done, maybe from 10:00 >up to 11:00, again inserted at a right angle to the surface. >Finally, 4 mm needles are used, again overlapping the 6 mm needles a >bit, and going up to the top line. >For the first two insertions (10 mm and 8 mm), a somewhat wider >spaced voicing tool is used, wider than most standard tools, and the >needle insertions are in line with one another. For the 6mm and 4 mm >insertions, a narrower spaced tool (the most common spacing I think) >is used, with insertions staggered from side to side, forming a diagonal grid. >Following needle insertions, the hammers are filed through four >grits, 120, 240, 400, 800 (I think). Leveling and mating as usual. >Then listen and refine voicing with further needling as needed. >Watching him on the screen, it looked like he went all the way up to >the middle of the crown in some cases, angling out a bit. And then >some shallow chopstick work on the crown itself. >Playing the piano to listen, he played three volume levels, more or >less FFF, mf and PP. The louder were for deeper needling, the PP for >chopstick. >Alignment of hammers and una corda position is somewhat unusual: the >corner of each hammer is chamfered (filed), and the una corda >position set so that on a soft blow the corner does not make the >third string sound, but on a hard blow it does. >More could be added, and perhaps someone else who was there will >care to chime in. > > ------------------------------------------- > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > fssturm@unm.edu > "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." > - Einstein > ------------------------------------------- > >


  • 3.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 11:52

    Thanks for posting that.  I had hope to go to SLC in part to attend that seminar.  One question, is the procedure  employed consistently enough from set to set such that they can go through at least the preliminaries prior to the set being bored and tapered and thus made easier while locked into a hammer clamp ont he bench?

    -------------------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    -------------------------------------------








  • 4.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 12:40


    -------------------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    -------------------------------------------

    That's a good question, and I hope the answer is yes.  This protocol seems ideally suited for the "pre-voicing" set up that many of us do as an efficiency - where the hammers are a blank, and not yet bored, tapered, coved, etc. etc. , and we do a filing this way also.  

    It seems that a way to safely establish the limits of this process would be to take some leftover hammers from your new set from here and there in the scale and perform the magic as described.  Then bore them, etc. and  temporarily mount them on some shanks, slide into the piano, and then listen.  Experienced voicers will likely be able to  tell quiclkly how far they can safely go with this process before beginning the pre-voicing. 

    Some of the answer to this question would lie in the make of hammer Fazioli uses and how hard the felt is generally. 

    That said, it is my experience that as long as your needles are still finding hard felt in the shoulder area, you are almost never getting yourself in trouble by going too far.

    Waiting with bated breath for your further edfication, Fred. 

    Will Truitt





  • 5.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 12:49
    The procedure is very consistent, and is the way it is done in the factory. Lines on the hammers, counting needle strokes, measuring needles, and all. Claudio and Rick Baldassin cautioned that this specific procedure was developed for their particular hammers in their pianos, hammers from Renner but made to their specs. But there is no reason why an analogous procedure wouldn't work on any hammer of this type - just that you need to do samples to see exactly what/how much you might want to do (at least for your first set of a particular hammer in a particular piano model). Of course, staying away from the crown in a very consistent and measured way ensures pretty well that you will still be able to customize the final sound with hammers in the piano, and that you won't have gone too far.

    What struck me was the attitude and philosophy implied by this procedure: "Hammer felt is a very even material. Pressing is done in a controlled and even way. Hence, hammers are quite consistent to begin with. So if we do the same thing with precision to each hammer (graduating from bass to treble), we will get very consistent results."
    This could be contrasted to a philosophy I hear a lot of here in the US: "Hammer felt and hammers are inconsistent, and we need to customize our approach from hammer to hammer." Both statements are exaggerations, but the attitudes are out there.

    I think the statement I label as "US" has its root in the fact that many of us simply aren't consistent and refined enough in setting things up, especially mating hammers (and leveling strings), but also things like firmness of centerpinning, travel, and square. If those factors aren't consistent, the voicing will sound very inconsistent, even if you have done precision work needling shoulders. I was interested that Rick Florence, in his class on concert prep, noted that when he went for training to the Bosendorfer factory, his eyes and ears were opened by their emphasis on refined mating. I think that is a pretty common experience for people who have been lucky enough to do training in Germany and Austria, and am glad that the word is beginning to spread. It is hard to overemphasize the impact of mating on tone quality. Another thing I often hear: "If you just wait for the piano to be played a lot, the hammers will mate themselves." It would be nice if that were so, but it isn't. I have plenty of practice room experience to show that those hammers will never mate themselves with wear, nor will the strings level themselves. There is too much springiness in the system for that to occur.

    In any case, the Fazioli procedure sets the hammers up so that they have a very consistent gradient of density in the hammers, producing a predictable, wide range of tone color. I'll add one thing: they recommend waiting at least a few days before doing final voicing, to allow the hammer felt to shift and adapt, re-setting the density within the hammer. That is in line with my experience as well: hammers get harder within a few days of a first voicing, whether they are played or not, and need to be gone through again.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------








  • 6.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 13:30


    -------------------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    -------------------------------------------
    I think your points are well made Fred, within limitations. 

    Hammer makers in general overclaim a consistency that is not there in general overall practice, in my experience.   

    Piano technicians overexpect (is that a new word?) a consistency that is rarely there in hammers. 

    Experienced voicers play the cards they are dealt.  With their skills they get the best possible results from each individual set of hammers.  How they approach a set of hammers will vary, even as they observe a consistent practice across the same make and style of hammer. 

    As stated earlier, for me the feedback the hammers give to me as I am pre-voicing allows me to continue safely in my pre-voicing.  As long as I can feel the hardness of the felt as I am needling, I am ok observing my established protocol on the shoulders.  I would never pre-voice in the crown area.  And I play with leftovers with my needles before I do anything. 

    I have pre-voiced many a set of Renner Blue hammers, even as I am noting inconsistencies in the felt as I go.  Likewise for Abel and other hammers.  That's not a dig at Renner or anyone else, that's just the reality of the world I live in and I accept that. 

    I would not say that hammer felt is a very even material, or are quite consistent.  There are too many variables in materials, the hammer making process, and the gluing of the hammer felt onto the moldings.

    But I would say that hammer felt and the hammers we get from our better makers are consistent enough that we can get consistent and predictable results when pre-voicing with specific limitations established from ongoing experience.  

    So that is not a nay on the Fazioli process.  In fact, I look forward to trying it at my earliest opportunity.  

    Thanks again for your comments.

    Will Truitt 






  • 7.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 16:36

    Fred;

    No set of hammers I've ever received is "consistant" from top to bottom, no matter the brand.  They all have to be attended to one by one.  The Fazioli method is just a nice start. and then after a few months of playing, of course, they have to be done again, and then again, and again....They're just fussy fellows, them hammers!
    -------------------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Piano Technician
    University of Nebraska
    Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
    pwilliams4@unl.edu
    -------------------------------------------








  • 8.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 18:10
    As I stated before, both philosophies are exaggerated: hammers are not entirely consistent, but they are also not chaotic - unless we make them so. Felt varies, and pressing varies, but not in such a way as to make neighboring hammers very different from one another. Sections of hammers are pretty consistent within the section. Sets of "the same hammer" (Renner blue, Abel Natural) are reasonably consistent set to set, enough so that a prescribed process of pre-voicing can be used successfully to reduce the amount of work done later, and get better overall results. And so that when the hammers are in the piano and you play them to gauge what needs to be done, consistent additional work can be done within each section.

    The point I was making was that if we treat a set of hammers consistently, the results will be much more consistent than if we treat each hammer as an individual. I don't use a procedure as controlled as that of Fazioli, but I think maybe I'll move farther in that direction. It got me wondering about just how well I gauge the precise middle of the strike point of hammers when working up towards the crown. A line down the middle would be a good idea to keep me honest. Can I really say I know where that center is within 2 mm? I'm not so sure, what with parallax and angle of view. And 1 or 2 mm is pretty significant when you are in that area. If you happen to "walk across the crown" rather than leave the precise middle 1 mm untouched, or, more to the point, if you walk over the crown of one hammer and needle leaving the 1 mm untouched on its neighbor, it makes a big difference. If you aren't aware of such minutiae, you aren't paying enough attention.

    Yes, in the end hammers need to be "touched up" individually, either in a shallow chop stick like fashion on the crown or more deeply somewhere, but it should be no more than touch up if the original procedure is refined enough.

    Something I forgot to mention: Claudio Valent does not pound in the hammers with the heel of the voicing tool. (Personally, I do, and I think he probably should, to speed up the redistribution of density in the hammer). Also, he showed a very interesting trick for bringing up a high treble hammer. He applied a few drops of pure acetone to the crown, then pounded the key, muting the string (in a fairly common procedure taught by Yamaha and others). Made a big difference, bigger than just pounding alone. There are no foreign substances in the hammer, the acetone is just acting as a wetting agent I guess.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------








  • 9.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 19:08
    Good thoughts, Fred.

    I do like the idea of gang filing, needleing, etc to get a new set of hammers into a neighborhood of "closeness". This Fazioli method is good.  I learned the same thing from Wally Brook a few years ago at an all day seminar here in NE.
    Different brands of hammers require different styles of voicing.  I have to remind myself what hammers I'm working on often.  I think we have here nearly every brand on the market!!  I really like the Abel Naturals. they do brighten up a bunch in practice rooms so now have to go calm them down this spring break and/or summer....and now even the Steinway hammers, tho they're still a get what you get and good luck. But the last couple sets were OK...

    Get the overall stuffs done, then get into the nitty gritty stuffs.  And it will have to be done several times. That's all I said.




    -------------------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Piano Technician
    University of Nebraska
    Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
    pwilliams4@unl.edu
    -------------------------------------------








  • 10.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 20:41
    Great discussion, thanks for starting it Fred. One thing I found interesting at Bosendorfer was they always needled up the shoulders from both sides. At Schimmel , in the first voicing prior to filing, they needled up to or down from the strike point, depending on what effect they wanted . Both did pay great attention to mating, and they could turn up very minor differences just by listening to individual strings without using the traditional plucking for open string method.

    My .02 c

    David

    -------------------------------------------
    David Brown
    Dallas TX
    214-484-3906
    -------------------------------------------








  • 11.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2012 20:02
    I have to agree with Fred here.  I find most sets of hammers pretty consistent from hammer to adjacent hammer.  If you hang a set prior to setting any needles (or lacquer) to them they are often very uniform in tone (assuming you've mated them properly), maybe not pleasantly so, but still uniform.  As you get into needling them some inconsistencies can develop but I believe that's more because of inconsistencies in needling (even when being very careful) than inconsistencies in the hammers.  In certain areas of the hammer it doesn't take much of a location variation with the needles to have more or less impact.  The piano soundboard and scale system can also sometimes have some inconsistencies that can show up on adjacent hammers as well.

    I almost always prevoice and also use the drawing lines method when doing so (as well as counting stitches) to insure uniform treatment of the set.  If it's an unknown type of hammer (which doesn't happen too much) then I'll do everything in the piano.  Prevoicing in a hammer clamp makes filing them a lot easier and also allows you to stand and lean on the voicing tool which can save the shoulder and arm some strain.  I don't try and go too far before actually mounting them and listening and reserve the final voicing stages for in-the-piano voicing as everyone agrees should be the case.  I try and stay away from the strike point area when prevoicing and that would be especially true in concert instruments where you definitely want to err on the side of too bright in the prevoicing stage. 
    -------------------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    -------------------------------------------








  • 12.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2012 18:04
      |   view attached
    I don't know if this is what they do at Fazioli, but if not it's similar.  Attached is a photo of the drawn guidelines for prevoicing that I use which allows you to be very accurate and consistent with needle insertions through the set and in proximity to the strike point. 

    -------------------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    -------------------------------------------








  • 13.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-02-2012 20:24
    Hi David,
    Your lines are very similar. The lowest line would probably be a couple mm lower in the Fazioli method, and there would be an additional line 2 - 3 mm away from the crown center line.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------








  • 14.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-09-2012 15:51
    I thought I would add a couple other details learned from the Fazioli classes at West-Pac (also including a concert prep class by Valent, Baldassin and Davenport):

    String leveling is done before damper installation, and the actual manipulation of the wire is done from below (key/action cavity) pushing up. They massage strings at the other bearing points (rear duplex, bridge pins, front duplex) to create a positive bend. Valent was clear, though, that they do not do this at the front termination of the speaking length (capo or agraffes), but simply apply enough pressure to level the strings. (I happen to disagree, but am reporting their procedure). They level the piano first, taking the keybed as the reference.

    Tuning: all three instructors in the concert prep class were clear that they do not use a "test blow" for tuning stability. They use hammer technique, along with playing the note often and in tandem with hammer movements.
    They de-tune some high treble unisons slightly as needed to even out sustain (add sustain to dead notes with too fast decay), emphasizing that this must be done with as much care to precision and stability as with clean unisons.

    They passed out a very cool chopstick voicing tool to attendees. The chopstick itself is a steel rod .073" in diameter with a needle permanently fixed in the end (it will fit between strings of a trichord unison, so can be inserted into the hammer at a more direct angle, meaning more control of exactly where it is inserted). This rod fits in a ballpoint pen sized handle, with a "spring/grab" attachment (like those tools for flange screws), and is reversed with the needle inside for storage. Very nicely designed and made, but I imagine all you can do is envy and drool, since I doubt they will offer it for sale - they haven't done that for their string level. Maybe somebody will copy it. Or if you can wangle factory training, maybe you could get one there :-)

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------





  • 15.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-10-2012 10:51
      |   view attached

    Did they give a reason why they didn't lift the strings at the front terminations? 

    BTW attached is a photo of a string level gauge sold by Mother Goose Tools.  Very handy.
    -------------------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    -------------------------------------------





    String leveling is done before damper installation, and the actual manipulation of the wire is done from below (key/action cavity) pushing up. They massage strings at the other bearing points (rear duplex, bridge pins, front duplex) to create a positive bend. Valent was clear, though, that they do not do this at the front termination of the speaking length (capo or agraffes), but simply apply enough pressure to level the strings. (I happen to disagree, but am reporting their procedure). They level the piano first, taking the keybed as the reference.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------










  • 16.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-10-2012 11:27
    David Love: "Did they give a reason why they didn't lift the strings at the front terminations? "

    No, they did not. It was too big a class for too many detailed questions, and I was too much taken up with my own teaching the rest of the convention to do follow up "in the hallways."

    My guess would be that there is the danger of over lifting strings, making it impossible to level them. I find a lot of pianos in that state, presumably from the procedure (introduced I think by Susan Graham - at least her articles in the PTJ were my source) of simply pushing up on all strings as a matter of course in either a recondition or a re-string. The Strate-mate being another instance, that makes it very easy to over bend/lift. Once they are bent to the max, they won't move, so you are pretty much stuck with their level. And level and mate are probably more important than positive bend. But personally I think a moderate positive bend is a good first step.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------



  • 17.  RE:Fazioli voicing

    Posted 03-11-2012 09:58
    Richard Davenport has some nice string massaging tools... incl a very nice string level.

    His site:  http://www.rcdavenport.com/clevel.htm  also includes videos on how he suggests the tools be used.

    -------------------------------------------
    Bill Fritz, St Louis Chapter Newsletter Editor
    pianofritz50@aol.com
    www.billfritzpianotuning.com
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