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dermatology needle roller

  • 1.  dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-08-2013 10:27


    Does this look workable for peppering?

    I ran across this recently, and thought it might be adaptable for 
    "peppering". You can buy them in .5mm 1mm and 1.5mm.

    I've been wanting to "invent" a better peppering tool, but
    maybe I don't have to?

    I can see myself zipping across an entire set of crusty hammers
    in minutes....back and forth or up and down.


    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-08-2013 12:36
    Richard,

    Where did you purchase this gizmo?
    Looks promising.



    -------------------------------------------
    Paul E. Dempsey, RPT
    Piano Technician Senior
    School of Music and Theater
    College of Art and Media
    Marshall University
    1 John Marshall Dr.
    Huntington, WV 25701
    (304) 617-1149
    dempsey@marshall.edu
    -------------------------------------------








  • 3.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-09-2013 09:49

    I found quite a selection at Amazon...get the ones with
    the most needles... 540 instead of 180....I just
    ordered them yesterday, and will try them out
    soon. I may have to develop some techniques
    ...I'm concerned that the rolling action might
    tear, but maybe if I'm careful it won't. 

    I'll have to see....

    It might be a good device for uprights.

    I'll update you when I get something.

    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 4.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-10-2013 07:19
    Here's a search in Amazon...

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dermatology+needle+roller+

    or if that link doesn't work, go to www.amazon.com  and search on "dermatology needle roller"

    -------------------------------------------
    Bill Fritz, St Louis Chapter Newsletter Editor
    pianofritz50@aol.com
    www.billfritzpianotuning.com
    -------------------------------------------




  • 5.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-10-2013 08:27


    -------------------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    -------------------------------------------
    What sizes did you order?  I have seen everything from .5, 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 mm. in length (from various suppliers).  It will be interesting to hear people's reactions about the effects this would have on crown voicing. 

    Will Truitt







  • 6.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-11-2013 09:56
    I ordered a .5mm and a 1.5mm. I believe this is the needle length and not the diameter.
    They've been shipped, but not arrived.

    I believe that for "peppering" or surface needling near the crown, you don't want a great
    deal of penetration, or at least I don't on non-Steinway pianos. I'm hoping that
    I can slip this down the hammers on uprights...zip-zip and done! I might use the
    longer needle on a Steinway 45 as the surface should be softer. I wouldn't think
    you'd have to press hard, but we'll see. I would try to protect the very apex of
    the crown initially, but we'll see.

    I'm interested to know what other people experience with these.
    Perhaps it would lead to something specifically for pianos with
    needles sizes Fred uses?

    I think mine came to only about $8,plus shipping, so it's not a bad investment 
    if it will work, or not much money lost if it doesn't. I could always
    give myself a facial!!! HAHA

    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 7.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-11-2013 11:56
    I would be concerned about the angle changing  between when the needle enters and exits the felt. When you stab the felt by hand, the direction of the stab remains parallel to the needles. With a roller each needle would push the felt sideways a little as it penetrates and exits. I realize that you would do only surface needling this way, but I think you would end up with a surface that's more torn than if needled by hand. The amount of needle rotation would be double because both the roller and hammer are round. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Mario Igrec
    http://www.pianosinsideout.com
    -------------------------------------------




  • 8.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-11-2013 12:33


    -------------------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    -------------------------------------------
    One thing sure has not changed in past 2 plus years - if I minimize this window, then the message I am in the midst of simply disappears.  And you wonder why most of us are on Googletech.....

    Only one way to find out how much tearing, if any, there will be.  Buy it and try it.  Keep the trashcan nearby. 

    Click on the link below:

    http://www.dhgate.com/new-titanium-540-needles-microneedle-derma/p-ff8080813c43128f013c4ca380fc7d22.html#s1-4-1

    A picture of the tool comes up.  If you click on it to enlarge, you will see that the needles are tapered.  That's not unlike the conical, but the conical does not seem to have what appear to be sharp edges as on these needles.  Will it have a similar effect?  Only one way to find out. 

    If the tool does not tear too much, it could be a very handy and quick tool to use.

    Will Truitt



  • 9.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-12-2013 10:30

    Hi, yes, I am concerned about tearing, too....
    if you google "dermapen" you can see
    a comparison with the pen action
    and the roller action. I may have
    to throw out the rollers. Well, my
    brainstorm was just that, huh?
    I will try the roller, though before
    I throw it away.....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29bWwHzl1ec&feature=share&list=PLC2C562E5B5E3D8EC


    That  pen is kind of what I'd envisioned
    for my peppering tool, but it won't work in
    an upright the way I would like. Also,
    it is expensive. I'd want more than
    11 needles, too.

    I suppose I could just make my own
    too from a dowel/cyanopoxy and
    brass tubing. I could make several
    at various depths that would be
    small enough to get between the
    strings and the hammers of an
    upright. It would be more like
    a "finger pick voicing tool"...but
    have lots of needles.

    Another product that I found was called
    a derma stamp...might be the answer
    if you tilt the action out to get to the
    crowns. They are cheaper than the
    expensive pepping tools sold by
    the supply houses. I'd get the one
    with the most needles.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ePPIIYNlVY

    My roller idea is pretty much shot down, now, I see...

    Oh well....

    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 10.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-10-2013 07:25

    I am looking forward to hearing more.
    -------------------------------------------
    BD,RPT....FWA
    Fort Wayne IN
    260-417-1298
    -------------------------------------------








  • 11.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-10-2013 11:48
    Ordered mine yesterday, got confirmation of shippment today, should be on my doorstep by Thursday or Friday.

    I only ordered the 1mm size to start.






    Marshall Dr.
    Huntington, WV 25701
    (304) 617-1149
    dempsey@marshall.edu
    -------------------------------------------








  • 12.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-10-2013 12:01
    1 mm is pretty large for a voicing needle, especially for crown. It is .039" while a John James #6 needle is .027". I'm curious how sharp they are, or if they are sharpened at all. Looking at video of how they are rolled on arms, I'd think you'd be seeing a lot of blood if they were sharpened.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein
    -------------------------------------------








  • 13.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-10-2013 12:11

    Perhaps. Not sure if 1mm is length to needles?

    We'll see. That's why I only got the one to start



    -------------------------------------------
    Paul E. Dempsey, RPT
    Piano Technician Senior
    School of Music and Theater
    College of Art and Media
    Marshall University
    1 John Marshall Dr.
    Huntington, WV 25701
    (304) 617-1149
    dempsey@marshall.edu
    -------------------------------------------








  • 14.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 04-12-2013 16:17
    My rollers arrived today, and I hope to report more on
    what happens with some sample hammers. The needles
    are very fine, more so than implied by the picture.
    The wheel is total diameter including the needle tips
    is only about 3/4". I tried rolling it on the back of
    my hand, but hey do not penetrate. One has to
    apply thumb pressure to get an impression. The
    needles might not be sharp enough. I might try
    them out on a chinese grand Sunday, but
    certainly will do some trials on some spare
    Imadegawa hammers I have. The spacing
    of the needles might just be right to do the
    tri-chord strings. Due to the curve of 
    the handle near the roller, it might be just
    right for starting on the lower shoulder,
    inside an upright action and rolling up
    near the strike point. So, I am encouraged.
    The needles are so small, they might not
    tear the felt, or do anything. We'll see
    and hear.

    More later...

    Richard

    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------








  • 15.  RE:dermatology needle roller

    Posted 05-23-2013 16:45
    I've tried this tool on Yamaha U1 hammers and Renner Blue grand hammers. They do not penetrate
    very far. I'm not sure, but what the size is the diameter of the needles, though that doesn't seem
    right either.

    Anyhow my procedure is to follow what is written on the box....

    In the upright I roll up from the low shoulders starting with the shoulder most distant to me, the one
    under what you can see. This tool works great for that and releases some surface tension.

    I listen to the restult and then roll up from the top shoulder. Just roll up to where the grooves
    begin, but not all the way over the crown either way.

    You can do this later, but go slow.

    I then roll side ways perpendicular to the first and then do an X pattern if more is needed.

    These old U1 hammers are not that hard on the surface.

    Rolling them smoothed this practice room piano out nicely, but did not demish power. There
    was still attack on the harder blows. I suppose like sugar coating you're only going to affect
    the pp>mp dynamic.

    If you wish to take out more attack in soft dynamics roll over the crown.

    You cannot press too hard or the wheel will become disloged.

    Anyone else try this tool yet? What did you find?

    I could do the entire piano very quickly prior to a tuning, so that I had
    very nice tone for hearing.

    Tonight I will try it on a Chinese/Storey & Clark...one of the worst
    grands I have to tune. (Hallet and Davis comes in a close 2nd)....
    These pianos do not render well, but I don't know why. They
    look just fine when you look at the bridge/agraffes/capo. Everything
    looks OK. Anyhow, a quick roll w/the derma roller will round out the
    tone enough that I'll be able to get closer the first time through.


    -------------------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Coe College Music Department
    Piano Technician
    Cedar Rapids IA
    -------------------------------------------