Thank you, Fred.
Original Message:
Sent: 11-04-2021 19:56
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
It is quite likely that someone replaced using whatever they had available without measuring or consulting a stringing schedule. I have seen that many, many times.
With respect to string breakage, it really makes little difference, as string strength is pretty much proportionate to the change in tension. It's more a question of tone quality. I'd use the original stringing schedule.
Regards,
Fred Sturm
"A mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." Plutarch
Original Message:
Sent: 11/4/2021 2:09:00 PM
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: RE: one rank/choir Zuckermann
I have the stringing schedule from Zuckermann. I'm just realizing now that I'm almost half way down the instrument, that the strings that I'm taking off aren't what Zuckermann recommends. Should I be concerned?
Yes, I measured the wire at the top when strings kept breaking. Put the micrometer away. Pulled it out again this morning when I glanced and could see some weirdness coming my way. Perhaps someone just put on whatever wire they had handy?
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2021 16:17
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
The lower strings will be brass. Usually .016, .018, .020, .022. Steel generally goes down to .014 or .016, so lots of sizes needed. Maybe you can find someone who has a good stock of wire fairly nearby, so you don't have to buy large quantities.
Regards,
Fred Sturm
http://fredsturm.netwww.artoftuning.com
"Criticism is easy. Art is difficult." Philippe Destouches
Original Message:
Sent: 10/30/2021 3:54:00 PM
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: RE: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Those are great ideas, Ed.
It's not mine.
It belongs to a church musician, and he would probably like to use it for Advent/Christmas. I'm just restringing and getting it to play. Its been hanging around here a long time. So long, that I'm only changing for parts. Shoulder surgery, getting a house ready to sell, fixing up a new house, moving, setting up my new shop space, etc., etc. I've been a bad business person.
The question now is, is all the plain wire steel? I guess all I have to do is take off a string in each section to find out. I have .008", .009" & .010". Looks like I'll make a second career/retirement career in stringing cheese cutters. :-)
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2021 14:21
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Yay!
So it's one of the late straight-side Zuckermann's longer than the little Z-box.
The 4' rank was never pinned or strung.
Plywood soundboard?
I think a lot depends on what you want it to be.
My choice would be to clean up the current 8' and look into the possibility of having two jack registers, one with delrin plectra, one with synthetic leather.
Then maybe contact Stephen Birkett, send him a scale and get his advice about restringing with his "P" wire.
This is never going to be a historic copy, but you could have a lot of fun...maybe turn it into a tangent piano...(I didn't say that!)
Let me know if you want to try using stiffened ecsaine for plectra. I don't know what modifications the jack tongues would need to take leather plectra.
Ed
------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2021 13:31
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Here are the pictures. Yeah, that's an old Yamaha pedal rod that I'm using as a lid prop, the owner didn't send the prop with the instrument.
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2021 12:56
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Hi Barb!
Can you post a full photo of the instrument?
I'm not clear if this is a Zuckerbox straight-side or an early Flemish/French bentside model.
If I remember right, the plywood Zuckerboxes used a stiff iron or soft steel wire.
But I may need correction.
I think your stiffness test is adequate for your purposes.
Meanwhile, if what you're doing is basically experimenting to find a playable use for this instrument...well...it'll probably take some experimenting.
Don't feel bad if you have to redo work as you learn....Yeah....Sometimes 51 notes worth....
------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
Original Message:
Sent: 10-30-2021 12:29
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Back again, I had to be a piano technician for a while. Wait…that's all I ever am. :-)
Well…I am restringing. There has not been a problem (yet) with the steel .008" at the top, thanks so much.
The plot thickens.
Actually, I think the wire that is here on the instrument is steel. I had decided to just use the steel in the .008" section, and as I was getting ready to go to .009", I tested the springiness of what I took off the instrument and compared it to my supply of iron and steel. Is there a test for determining what the wire is, besides my just trying to be consistent in how much pressure I use to put a bend in the wire?
At some point earlier, I had to replace a wire (used iron) and the sound was certainly less, which was kind of alarming. I had already replaced plectra on the instrument (certainly not the final voicing) just to get each note to play for stringing.
Thanks,
Barb
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-02-2021 09:47
From: Elizabeth Harris
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
For diameters, I would stick with the schedule you have. .008 seems completely reasonable for a top note. If your string list goes to .009 within, say, an octave, you might get that in music wire too, in case they start breaking too after a short time. As as side benefit, you can fix an infinite (almost) number of cheese slicers with the stuff, since you'll have lots. :-)
Original Message:
Sent: 10/2/2021 9:35:00 AM
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: RE: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Wow, thank you so much, Beth, for that very helpful information. Is there a best size for me to order-or do I stick with the .008" listed on the scale sheet?
Thanks, again!
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-02-2021 08:38
From: Elizabeth Harris
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Hi Barbara,
I'm sorry to hear this string has been such a toad for you. 15.1cm is a very long speaking length for f''' (piano F6). I just dropped those scaling numbers into my handy dandy spreadsheet and the tension is at around 120% of what I customarily allow for iron. The pattern of breakage at different points along the string is also characteristic if over tensioning.
This is not uncommon for the top few notes of some harpsichords, and fwiw, extremely common for the very top of the 4', where the gap doesn't allow the bridge to come close enough, even in some classical designs. My suggestion would be to put music wire on that note, and possibly the next few down when they break. The tonal difference will be fairly small at the top.
As another point of reference. Both the iron sold by Zuckermann, and that sold by the Instrument Workshop are drawn by Little Falls Alloys, so they are, as far as I know, identical. You can get teeny tiny music wire from Schaff without any problem. If you just want the one string, send me your address off list and I'll drop one in the mail for you.
All best,
Beth
Original Message:
Sent: 10/1/2021 7:39:00 PM
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: RE: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Thanks. All of the wire I have came from Zuckermann, except for a couple small spools that I got at the Instrument Workshop some years ago. When I started this project, I talked with Richard, sent him pictures, he made suggestions, and he sent me what he thought I needed.
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2021 18:39
From: Gregory Hamilton
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Iron and brass are best and are historical steel sounds poor. If you call Zuckerman they can send you the correct string.
Visit my website
YouTube: ghmus7
Original Message:
Sent: 10/1/2021 6:33:00 PM
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: RE: one rank/choir Zuckermann
I have the tinned iron. I don't have any steel, but I'll get some and give it a try. It would be nice to have <something> there.
Thanks for the suggestion.
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2021 17:41
From: Donald McKechnie
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Is the wire you are using steel or tinned iron at .008? If it is iron, just for the heck of it, try steel. There will be a difference in tonal quality but if it holds........ Also just for the heck of it, if you have .007 tinned iron give that a try.
------------------------------
[Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
[Piano Technician]
[dmckech@ithaca.edu]
[Home 607.277.7112]
Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2021 16:09
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
I take it all back. I was working down the scale, and while I was tuning another note, the top note broke…
The other new strings using the same wire have not broken.
I think I'll go hang my new curtains…
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2021 14:31
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
So, after filing the nut, I put on another .008" wire. It broke-also at the nut. Then I decided to measure the existing wire on the next note below, which according to the scale, should be .008". It was .009". Put on a .009" wire and all is good…so far. :-)
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2021 21:24
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Hi Ed,
In piano tuning terms, it's F6 (top note for this model), note 59. I'm tuning to A-440. The speaking length is 15.1 cm. The scale schedule calls for .008" wire.
BTW, I really like doing the side-scraping voicing that I learned about in the convention class by Paul Irvin and Ken Eschete in Arizona. This instrument will be at a church, and the music minister was hoping for a fairly strong voice. It's coming right along!
I've liked working on harpsichords, I just hardly ever do it, so when I do work on one, it takes me a while to get in the swing of it…
Barb
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2021 20:50
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Barb-
I'm curious to know what is the note and how long is the speaking length?
A=440 or A=415?
Ed
------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2021 20:43
From: Donald McKechnie
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Thanks Barb,
I have a similar small vise. It looks like the spinner is readily available online so I might give it a try.
Don
------------------------------
[Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
[Piano Technician]
[dmckech@ithaca.edu]
[Home 607.277.7112]
Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2021 19:42
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Hi Don,
The smaller coil of wire came from Zuckermann. I also have one a small spool that I think came from The Imstrument Workshop. Lots of wire to practice on, for sure. LOL, I've used my phone camera on zoom to inspect the tails I tied, because I sure can't see them without it!
The vise I use came from my dad, who liked to put models together. I'll see if I can find it on the Internet. Anyway, I carry it in one of my repair kits. It's pretty handy. There's also an attachment, I think, that has a magnifying glass. That is in my spare tool container in my shop. Guess I should look at that!
Barb
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2021 19:11
From: Donald McKechnie
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
What type of wire are you using? I believe Zuckermann used the tinned iron for the kits but I have seen steel on these instruments as well. One possibility for breakage is that the builder made a mistake in the placing of the nut and bridge just enough that the scale length is not proper. Unfortunately I do not have any data on string lengths for this instrument.
It cannot hurt to try sanding/filing the indentation lightly. It would be great if that did the trick!
I have a homemade hook and spin tail maker and I like using it in the shop. It is too big to take to a job though as it needs a large vise to hold the jig. Can you take a video some time to show how you use your device? I'm always interested in new tools!
------------------------------
[Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
[Piano Technician]
[dmckech@ithaca.edu]
[Home 607.277.7112]
Original Message:
Sent: 09-30-2021 17:01
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
This could be longest harpsichord project on record...I'm finally getting to it. For now, I just replaced the strings that were missing. All went well, except for note 59 (.008"). I've replaced it a number of times...ahem. It's broken all different places, so I just thought it was a problem with the wire, and then I saw the little indentation in the nut--and that's where it broke on this last try with a new source of wire. I'm assuming I can sand/file that a little bit. On the longest-lasting string, I didn't have the wire go as far down the tuning pin. That's when I though I had solved the problem. Oh well. Is there anything else that could be the problem?
One thing I was waiting for before I started restringing in earnest was this fly fishing jig that I attach the string to and it spins while I tie the tail. Maybe no one else gets spooked about the wire twisting when using the hook and spin way of making the tail. I have done the other way of making tails, but my old eyes now prefer the hook and spin method--or however you refer to it. I'll attach pictures.
As always ways, thanks for your help.
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 08-28-2021 12:27
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Thanks, Ed. That's a nice approach. I went to the class at the convention where the different thicknesses of plectra was talked about. I was considering those. And thanks for the samples. That is so kind of you.
Barb
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 08-28-2021 07:16
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Barb-
Your voicing will need to be very even for the half/full hitch to work.
One thing that can help it to cut the dampers diagonally (not flat across the string) so that the damper pushes the jack back to the side of the slot in the register. The tiny wobble of the jack can change the voicing. (This is very helpful in instruments with worn parts.)
A trick I use for trimming new plectra is to insert all plectra and set the register at the expected "whisper" position, then mark the plectra by tracing with a fine felt-tipped marker along the far sides of the strings, then clip the tips with a flush cutter, leaving just a sliver to be trimmed to a bevel tip with a scalpel.
The Instrument Workshop <fortepiano.com> has a new owner, and I understand is back in business. They sell delrin plectra in multiple thicknesses, which may save you a lot of nervous scraping if they work for you and your instrument. I mention them without necessarily recommending them, as I have found they don't stay put in the mortises of the plastic jacks the Workshop sells! But they worked well in wooden jacks I made. They might work in the Zuckermann jacks which have a tighter mortise. I'll send you a few samples and you can try them. Play the test notes 200 times to make sure they stay.
Ed
------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2021 20:17
From: Donald McKechnie
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Great Barbara, If you give it a go, make sure you do a meticulous ghosting first. I would then try setting the half hitch and voice to even the tone. Then try the full hitch and tweak as necessary. I have set half hitch stops in the past and it works well if done properly. It takes some time and patience. Let us know if you try it.
------------------------------
[Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
[Piano Technician]
[dmckech@ithaca.edu]
[Home 607.277.7112]
Original Message:
Sent: 08-26-2021 12:10
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Thanks, Don. Hmm. Maybe I'll give that a try.
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
Bloomington, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2021 15:51
From: Donald McKechnie
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
All great suggestions given and I will add one more. After getting the register stable and making sure the jacks are not sloppy in the register mortise, you could set the register to "half hitch" instead of off. It takes a bit of fussing with the voicing but you then have a loud and a soft stop.
------------------------------
[Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
[Piano Technician]
[dmckech@ithaca.edu]
[Home 607.277.7112]
Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2021 10:58
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Thanks, Fred!
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
near Peoria, Illinois
Original Message:
Sent: 08-25-2021 10:39
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
By all means, adjust the capstans on the ends of the working register so they hold it in the on position. And also insert shims into the gap between the jack guide and the belly rail (or on the other side or both, if that seems best).
I would suggest not assuming it will never have two working sets of strings and jacks. Eventually, instruments pass along to a new owner. Might as well leave options open.
Original Message:
Sent: 8/24/2021 10:13:00 PM
From: Barbara Richmond
Subject: one rank/choir Zuckermann
Hi,
Is there any reason I shouldn't fix in place the upper guide/register of a one manual, one choir harpsichord. Is there any reason it should shift if there is only one? The instrument was original instrument was designed for two, but it will never have two.
Also, there seems to be a big space all along the upper guide. I was thinking of finding the best spot for it and then adding shims to keep it in place. is there any reason I shouldn't do that?.
Thanks,
Barb Richmond
------------------------------
Barbara Richmond, RPT
near Peoria, Illinois
------------------------------