Pianotech

>> I'm interested in any observations about setting levels and dip for sharps. I think it is fairly straight forward. The sharps cannot be much over 1/2" above the naturals or pianists begin to complain. They cannot go below the surface of the naturals when depressed, and if they are even with the surface, that doesn't feel good, either. So, if you have .390" dip, that leaves .110" for aftertouch and height above the surface when depressed. Assuming an aftertouch of .040", that will leave the naturals .070" high during normal playing. This is plenty, and can easily be lessened if you want to lower the sharps. The lower sharps are easier on the pianist, and there is no need for the sharps to protrude more than .050" or so. Where things get tricky is when you need a LOT of keydip. This happens with low action ratios. You may need to decrease aftertouch, increase key height, and push the limit on comfort inre how close to the surface the tops of the depressed sharps come. It often comes down to raising hammer lines while deepening keydip, just to keep the sharps out of the mortises. Regards, Ed Foote RPT http://www.piano-tuners.org/edfoote/index.html

This is what I use, I made a jig with that has a piece of brass that floats and is set to exactly 10mm.

Carrying forward from Ed's comments, the gauge itself can be straight forward and useful once you've gone through the type of analysis that he describes, rather than assuming you can use it to establish both height and dip without modifying the setting.  Once you've determined your target height, it's simple, assuming you have decent lighting and a solid natural key level. I'll ususally get very close by depressing the two adjacent naturals along with the sharp (with the action stack removed - [as I recall, Bill Garlick despises 'stack']).  As Ed's respnse suggested, exact measurements are not as critical as effectiveness and consistancy. For example, I've found lately that even .030" (as measured using the "lost-punching method") can feel excessive, even for naturals, and that, for consistency of the feel of aftertouch, the sharps would require a lesser actual measurement.  As a side note, while I'm not totally enamoured of the feel of the Wurzen front punchings, they are amazing in allowing one to observe the difference to the feel of aftertouch  in even .001".  Alright, maybe .002".     

One other unfortunate side effect of excessive sharp height can result from the subsequent need to build up the key's front punchings and, in the process, interfere with the dip of the adjacent naturals.  Of course, I've never done that.

The most frustrating part of setting sharp dip in the piano is the occaisional cataclysmic lose of the punching set as you are removing from or replacing it on the front pin.  Totally breaks the rhythm and sense of mastery.  Fortunately, I've never done that either.

-------------------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-21-2011 19:38
From: Edward Foote
Subject: Sharps Leveling and DIp

>> I'm interested in any observations about setting levels and dip for sharps.




I think it is fairly straight forward. The sharps cannot be much over 1/2" above the naturals or pianists begin to complain.
They cannot go below the surface of the naturals when depressed, and if they are even with the surface, that doesn't feel good, either.
So, if you have .390" dip, that leaves .110" for aftertouch and height above the surface when depressed. Assuming an aftertouch
of .040", that will leave the naturals .070" high during normal playing. This is plenty, and can easily be lessened if you want to
lower the sharps. The lower sharps are easier on the pianist, and there is no need for the sharps to protrude more than .050" or so.
Where things get tricky is when you need a LOT of keydip. This happens with low action ratios. You may need to decrease
aftertouch, increase key height, and push the limit on comfort inre how close to the surface the tops of the depressed sharps come.
It often comes down to raising hammer lines while deepening keydip, just to keep the sharps out of the mortises.
Regards,
Ed Foote RPT
http://www.piano-tuners.org/edfoote/index.html

Here's a related question.  When setting aftertouch, how hard do you all press the key down after let-off and drop to measure it?  I was just doing this yesterday on a Steinway B with my key-dip block from Steinway and this came across my thoughts while working....press too lightly and the block sits up a bit and press too hard and the block buries lower than the neighboring key (naturals).  For sharps, I like about 2-3mm above the naturals when depressed.

-------------------------------------------
Paul T. Williams RPT
Piano Technician
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0100
pwilliams4@unl.edu
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-22-2011 07:12
From: David Skolnik
Subject: Sharps Leveling and DIp

Carrying forward from Ed's comments, the gauge itself can be straight forward and useful once you've gone through the type of analysis that he describes, rather than assuming you can use it to establish both height and dip without modifying the setting.  Once you've determined your target height, it's simple, assuming you have decent lighting and a solid natural key level. I'll ususally get very close by depressing the two adjacent naturals along with the sharp (with the action stack removed - [as I recall, Bill Garlick despises 'stack']).  As Ed's respnse suggested, exact measurements are not as critical as effectiveness and consistancy. For example, I've found lately that even .030" (as measured using the "lost-punching method") can feel excessive, even for naturals, and that, for consistency of the feel of aftertouch, the sharps would require a lesser actual measurement.  As a side note, while I'm not totally enamoured of the feel of the Wurzen front punchings, they are amazing in allowing one to observe the difference to the feel of aftertouch  in even .001".  Alright, maybe .002".     

One other unfortunate side effect of excessive sharp height can result from the subsequent need to build up the key's front punchings and, in the process, interfere with the dip of the adjacent naturals.  Of course, I've never done that.

The most frustrating part of setting sharp dip in the piano is the occaisional cataclysmic lose of the punching set as you are removing from or replacing it on the front pin.  Totally breaks the rhythm and sense of mastery.  Fortunately, I've never done that either.

-------------------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
-------------------------------------------

I attach my sharp height gauge, idea courtesy of Roger Jolly. As pictured, it slides up to the front of the sharp, and you feel the difference in height. Easy to make, easy to use. Also pictured is my favored tool for removing and replacing punchings, particularly of sharps (Crescendo especially, smaller hole and harder to get on and off the pin). Duckbill pliers with sharpened end, idea courtesy of Terry Otake. No more dropping.