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PianoDisc upgrade

  • 1.  PianoDisc upgrade

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-24-2011 10:43

    For what it's worth, and for those of you that are PianoDisc techs, I just did my first in home upgrade from a 1998 128 plus to Silent Drive HD.  All solenoids and all electronics were swapped out and it took about 6 hours nonstop.  I'll be going back to spend another hour or two to handle some minor details I over looked.

    To swap the solenoids I sat in the rear hatch of my Honda wagon using a portable workbench made of a 2 X 10, collapsable horses, bar clamps and a bench vise clamped to the horse and plank.

    The record cable interface was not mounted properly and the pedal mechanism needs some longer screws and some leather to make it work better.

    I'll most likely be posting some pics covering the record interface disconnect if anyone is interested.
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    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
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  • 2.  RE:PianoDisc upgrade

    Posted 12-24-2011 11:32
    Definitely!

    Keith McGavern, RPT
    Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
    tune-repair@allegiance.tv
    -------------------------------------------
    From: Larry Fisher
    Subject: PianoDisc upgrade
    ... I'll most likely be posting some pics covering the record interface disconnect if anyone is interested.


  • 3.  RE:PianoDisc upgrade

    Posted 12-24-2011 12:22
    Wow. This is shocking for me to hear; both of the "quality" installers here in L.A. told me unequivocally that upgrading systems that old was impossible, costs more than it's worth, etc. etc. What's the real story? Is it supported by the company? Is it "ethical?" Does it work as good as new equipment?
    Thanks so much for letting me pick your brain.....

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    David Andersen
    Los Angeles CA
    310-391-4360
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  • 4.  RE:PianoDisc upgrade

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-25-2011 10:37

    Well let's see David ......  I can understand the "cost effectiveness" of simply replacing the control box with an iQ box and plugging in the iPod or iPad to drive the unit.  Lots of people own iPod and iPads these days and so THAT expense is already over with on such an upgrade.  For demonstrative purposes, let's say the iQ box costs $1000 to replace.

    After 15 years of existence, the rubber tips on the key solenoids are hard.  The new ones are soft and give a bit when pushed sideways and the plunger rod is specially machined to hold them in place so all the solenoids will have to be replaced.

    The driver boards may look the same but after a close inspection, the new ones are far more capable to run at higher data speeds hence more key control during the stroke.

    The new power supply is really light weight and so the old boat anchor needs to be lowered out of there with some effort and replaced with the new ones.

    The new pedal solenoid is metric and should be replaced so that it is new as well.  It only takes a minute.

    The new CPU board is no longer rail cover mounted.  It's about the size of a large post card and gets mounted somewhere outside of the rail cover.

    Let's say this whole set up costs the customer $5000  .....  parts and labor.  These are numbers for comparison purposes.

    Cost effective??  That's for the customer to decide.  I've had only one customer agree to this upgrade so far.

    Ethical??  The factory encourages kit sales.  They provide a discount for an incentive to upgrade.  The customer ends up with a state of the art player once again  ........  on location.  No piano move needed.  The piano plays immensely nicer than it ever did and as an added plus, it's mechanically quieter, plays softer and doesn't miss notes.  Software is downloadable online and a record is kept of the transaction so that as storage media changes, the owner can get credit for previously purchased software.  They have an exchange program in place called Legacy Exchange for people that have floppies or CD's that need to be converted to current media storage devices.  Yeah there's factory support.

    The one thing I miss is being able to make some software adjustments using a 128plus control box.  The new power supply won't accommodate the plug ins. I could use an old power supply but that's more crap to haul around.

    Hazards  .........  the pedal solenoid nut is large (one of them is).  Some installers cut off part of this to accommodate the installation.  The new one, being metric, won't work with the old nut so the portable bench with vise was very useful for making the cut with my reciprocating saw.  I then used an angle grinder to pretty it up from there. 

    Older ones will need the rails replaced hence the bench vise again to hold the new rails as you make your cuts. 

    Somewhere in this particular player's life, the sostenuto mechanism was messed with and I had to replace a wrongly installed return spring with a new one and improve the installation so that it didn't happen again. 

    The sustain pedal pivots didn't have long enough screws in them and so during the disruption of removing and reinstalling that mechanism, the screw holes wallowed out and came loose again in a matter of days. 

    Numerous trips from the piano's location to the work shop area (back of car with portable work bench) are neccessary.  Slippers that can be readily put on and off help reduce the number of pine needles and mud that gets tracked in the house.   You'll make points in a big way with this one  .......  providing you wear socks that don't have holes in them.



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    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
    -------------------------------------------








  • 5.  RE:PianoDisc upgrade

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-26-2011 15:44
    Thanks for breaking this topic.  I also have done several "upgrades".  However, I do not try to save anything other than the slot and solenoid rail mounting bolts, the trap work (if it was done correctly) and speakers.  After selling the job, I go to the home, remove everything that will be replaced, back to the shop to duplicate the solenoid rails, back to the  home to install everything, check out and adjust the system.  I figure I can do this for the cost of the kit (plus my percentage of profit) and two days of my time.

    My biggest selling point is "How many computers or TVs have you replaced since you purchased this player system?"  Those that think this system should last forever are the same people who don't understand why their piano won't stay  in tune more than 5 years and what the heck is regulation?  (Much less voicing)

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.prescottpiano.com
    larry@prescottpiano.com
    928-445-3888
    -------------------------------------------








  • 6.  RE: PianoDisc upgrade

    Posted 08-31-2024 13:54

    Hello Larry 

    My name is Joey and I am new to the community. I am a tech and trying to upgrade my old PianoDisk system to play the "silent drive plus" format that came out sometime after 1998 I think. My system is older (PDS-128). So far I have replaced the controller box with PDS228-CFX and hooked up a bluetooth dongle to the MIDI ports on the processor board to play wireless MIDI which is awesome. CD play too but not the ones soled at PianoDisk marked (silent drive plus" format. I tried to upgrade my CPU with the famous rev K  floppy to no avail. Every step went through but I got an error at the end for the "checksum" step. Real bummer my goodman! 

    I understand I can keep my solenoids and driver boards as is (they work great) but need to upgrade my "processor board" which is currently a 1993 version part number PCB-100-007-A. This is the one with LED lights and the MIDI ports on it where I have the bluetooth dongle attached. 

    Can you or anyone help a brother over here and please tell me what version/part number of a "processor board" do I need to replace mine with so that I can enjoy the silent drive plus format? You would make a whole family happy. 

    thank you and cheers 

    Joey 



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    Joey Liender
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  • 7.  RE: PianoDisc upgrade

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-02-2024 08:24

     Hello Joey, welcome to the community.  The reason why you get a checksum error is because you're trying to update an older system.  The K update only works for Silent Drive CPU systems, circa 1997+.  The system you have, from 1993-1994, is a 'Blue Board' system.  All the circuits boards should be blue.  The PDS-128 box is just the control unit.  PianoDisc updated the PDS-128 that was included in the new Silent Drive system... it was called PDS-128plus.  You'll know the different because there is a headphone jack on the side of the box. (If I remember correctly).
    You'll need to update more then just the CPU for the silent drive plus format.  The whole system; CPU, driver boards, pedal board, solenoid rail, and all the wiring, will need to be replaced.  The Silent Drive circuit boards are green. I can send you a picture of the CPU, if needed.

    If you been told the older blueboard driver boards would work with the new Silent Drive CPU, I'm unaware of that.  I've always been told by PianoDisc they need to be replaced because it's a different kind of connection (RJ-45 jack).  But I've never experimented with that.



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    Dave Foster, RPT
    Michigan State University
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  • 8.  RE: PianoDisc upgrade

    Member
    Posted 09-02-2024 15:09

    Dave... I agree with your reply. The last upgrade I did was a 128 system that required all new circuit boards. I believe I also had to replace all of the solenoids  to spring-less. On top of that the piano was a piano disc made by Young Chang for Piano Disc and the action brackets had to be replaced. The piano was one nasty little beast 



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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    (843) 325-4357
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  • 9.  RE: PianoDisc upgrade

    Posted 09-02-2024 16:59
    Hello David 

    Thank you so much for responding. I find the information you have provided very helpful. Yes I have the old system with blue boards. However, my system as is, plays a pianodisk CD with the silent drive plus format but with the annoying extra notes. It is pretty clear to me ears that absent the extra notes, my system is capable of playing well. The music flows well, I can't notice any issues related to pedals, solenoids, driver boards and so on. So that raises the question as to why I would have to upgrade all the solenoids and driver boards, pedal controls etc. 

    On the other hand, and as you are well aware, the extra notes are software related and were purportedly added by Pianodisk to deal with competition. Hence, it made sense that the rev K floppy would upgrade the CPU software code to get rid of the annoying extra notes. Again, everything else plays great. 

    Therefore, is there a reason why only replacing the CPU board would not take care of my problem? If you could please provide pictures of the 1st generation CPU board capable to play the SDP format, I think it will shed some light on whether or not it can be retrofitted / integrated into my old blue system as is. 

    Thank you so much and wish you a great Labor Day. 
    Joey





  • 10.  RE: PianoDisc upgrade

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-02-2024 17:52
    Here is the Silent Drive CPU.  Attached.
    You are correct about the Silent Drive Plus format.  BUT, the Rev K will not install on the old blueboard CPU.  You need the Silent Drive CPU.  As I said... I've never upgraded the CPU only on the blueboards system because the I don't think they are compatible.  You need to upgrade the driver boards as well.  For instance, the pedal board is integrated into the newer SD driver board, do I don't know how the SD CPU would handle that the blueboard external pedal board.  Again, I'm not sure.  I'd assume it's not compatible.


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    Dave Foster, RPT
    Michigan State University
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  • 11.  RE: PianoDisc upgrade

    Posted 09-02-2024 19:13
    This is becoming fun David because I think there might still be a way. I fully understand your point about the pedal board. But the two pics below show that the SD CPU is directly driving the pedal solenoid. You see that? If so, there maybe a controller circuit inside the SD CPU that drives the pedal solenoid directly, hence the separate driver board in my blue system can be simply bypassed. 

    Looking at the picture, it looks like the SD CPU gets the 40V DC from the PS then uses that to directly control the pedal solenoid. On the other hand, it looks like it connects to the controller box and the PS. 

    Now, the problem with my theory presents in the 4 pin orange connectors shown on the SD CPU. It looks like the 4 pins connect to only 2 driver boards! So whatever functionality that is, it looks like its discriminating against one of the driver boards! Finding out what the orange connectors are for, will potentially nail down my theory true or false. 

    Do you know what the orange connectors do?  


    Inline image


    Inline image






  • 12.  RE: PianoDisc upgrade

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-02-2024 21:47

    Yes, the orange plug is the pedal voltage output.  Since the CPU now controls the pedal system, the information goes thru the RJ-45 cable to the driver boards.  The bass driver board connection controls Sustain pedal solenoid.  The middle driver board connection controls the Soft pedal solenoid (which never got used except in the Opus system).  The 4-pin orange connection on the CPU directly feeds the Sustain & Soft plugs (RCA jacks). Once the CPU plugs into the bass driver board with the RJ-45 cable, the system recognizes which board is which (bass, middle, treble).  The treble board pedal plug is not used by the system.

    Also, the SD system Power Supply had 2 outputs.  The 40volt which directly plugs into the bass driver board (and daisy chains to all three boards) and feeds the key solenoid rail and pedal solenoid.  There is also a 10volt logic output that plugs into the CPU (plug marked TO Power Supply).  This feeds the CPU, Driver boards, and Control Unit.
    Since the blueboard system used different logic information, I don't think a SD CPU will function with the blueboard driver boards.  I'm sure the solenoids would work just fine, since they only need 40volts to fire.  It's the data plug that's not compatible.  Maybe you could splice the 8-pin RJ-45 cable to fit a blueboard, but you'd have to get a wiring schematic.


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    Dave Foster, RPT
    Michigan State University
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