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Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

  • 1.  Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 12:07
    On 8/22/2013 4:46 AM, William Truitt wrote: > > It is a bit hard to find > with Ed's directions, here is a link to take you right to it: > > http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20130205968.pdf Thanks Will. Ron N


  • 2.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 12:41


    -------------------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    -------------------------------------------
    I found it mostly by dumb luck, no reason for anybody else to suffer.

    Will







  • 3.  Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 13:27
    On 8/22/2013 11:40 AM, William Truitt wrote: > > I found it mostly by dumb luck, no reason for anybody else to suffer. My luck was way dumber. I never did. Ron N


  • 4.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 13:56


    -------------------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    -------------------------------------------
    Does that mean the link I sent out does not work?  I copied it into MS Notes, clicked on the link there and it opened where it should. 

    Will







  • 5.  Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 15:07
    On 8/22/2013 12:54 PM, William Truitt wrote: > > ------------------------------------------- Does that mean the link I > sent out does not work? I copied it into MS Notes, clicked on the > link there and it opened where it should. It opened just fine, and I thanked you for it. The original that Ed posted was the one that never got me anywhere. Ron N


  • 6.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 16:42
    After scanning through it, I found that the last three pages (12 - 14), comprising the "claims," provide the most clarity for what Ed has to offer. The rest of the verbiage is too dense for me to wade through, by far. Essentially we are looking at duplex lengths that are "a-harmonic" (lengths chosen that will definitely not be harmonic), and use of various materials for string rests and capo to damp certain vibrations. At least that's what I gather from it. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------








  • 7.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 17:52
    http://www.google.com/patents/US7718880?pg=PA1&dq=daniel+levitan+piano&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eIQWUrXTC6jh4AOopoA4&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA Dan Levitan's tuning lever patent. Detailed, and worth reading. Dan's skill as a writer comes through and saves the day. ------------------------------------------- Ed Sutton Editor Piano Technicians Journal ed440@me.com 704-536-7926 -------------------------------------------


  • 8.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-22-2013 18:14
    On that same subject, Steve Fujan's is worth a look, also very clearly written. 
    https://www.google.com/patents/US7638702?dq=fujan+hammer&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JooWUpvaL4mRiQL9-IHQAw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA
    And there is a nice listing of about 15 previous tuning hammer patents at the end of Fujan's, with links to those patents, back to 1854. 

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------








  • 9.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-25-2013 01:03
    Sorry I didn't post the complete URL and I don't know how to post a direct link. Here is the full URL. www.freepatentsonline.com/y2013/0205986.html

    Fred your synopsis leaves out two very important facets: The blending of the usable duplex ratios across the compass to maximize pivot termination conditions for the shortest strings and blend the pivot function across the compass to fit well with the lower half where pivot is far less important. And, essentially what I discovered is that the L-modes within a treble unison cannot be brought into unison when the T-modes are in unison, and even though the fundamental L-mode frequencies in the treble are above the range of human hearing-the L-modes can produce audible beats. This is the source of most duplex "whistles". 

    If you have studied contemporary patent prose the density of verbiage has become insane. I worked with my attorney and a couple of friends who are patent holders on writing the text. And at every step I fought for clarity. Dan Levitans' patent is a design patent, which is essentially a mechanical copyright. I am seeking a technology patent. Writing one of those is a much more complex task to cover the technology you are claiming.

    -------------------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    -------------------------------------------








  • 10.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-27-2013 14:57
    Hi Ed,
    I posted in hopes that maybe some additional clarification would be forthcoming. I was not entirely complaining about the language in the application, just saying that I don't have the time to wade through it, and frankly don't understand some of the concepts.

    I am afraid I haven't caught the mechanism by which you are "blending the usable duplex ratios across the compass to maximize pivot termination conditions for the shortest strings and blend the pivot function across the compass to fit well with the lower half where pivot is far less important." Essentially what I am hoping for is some clarification in simpler terms. The T and L mode terminology is not familiar, as a starting place.

    -------------------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." -Federico Mompou
    -------------------------------------------








  • 11.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-27-2013 15:27


    -------------------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
    -------------------------------------------
    Let me second Fred on this one, Ed.  I have read parts of it, and I sort of understand a few things - like the use of certain materials at the terminations, and that in the Capo area your duplex system will help control the longitudinal waves and transverse waves in such a way that it will control false beats, but I think I am still missing a lot of what you are saying. 

    To paraphase the offering of another on this forum, "tell it to us in language that a piano technicians grandmother could understand".  Lawyered up language does little to create understanding, even as it covers your butt in a patent application. 

    Tell us what it does, and how it could improve the piano and benefit us. 

    This is not a complaint  - I am interested and do want to understand more.


    Will Truitt








  • 12.  RE:Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 08-27-2013 17:16
    Ed McM-

    I suggest you begin with a discussion of a single string, say G5, explaining the interaction of T and L modes in the duplex areas, and how they change as you change the duplex lengths
    Then add two more strings as the unison G5, and explain the compounded interactions.

    -------------------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    Editor
    Piano Technicians Journal
    ed440@me.com
    704-536-7926

    -------------------------------------------








  • 13.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 06-19-2015 00:50

    I am reviving this thread as a way to announce that the US Patent Office has recently determined that 44 claims of the 47 submitted with the application for a patent on my Fully Tempered Duplex Scale have been allowed. I will continue the application process now by negotiating for the remainder claims.

    Thanks for reading this.

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------




  • 14.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 10-05-2015 23:43



    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



    I want to take this opportunity to announce that the U.S. Patent Office has issued me Patent #9,117,421, titled; Fully Tempered Duplex Scale. I have been allowed 44 claims. I am continuing the patent process for additional claims.

    Thanks for your interest



  • 15.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 10-06-2015 11:52
    Congrats Ed




  • 16.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 10-06-2015 21:15
    Yes, having been through the process once, I agree: Congratulations. In today's world this is neither easy nor inexpensive.

    Del

    --
    Delwin D Fandrich
    Piano Design & Manufacturing Consultant
    6939 Foothill Court SW, Olympia, Washington 98512 USA
    Email  ddfandrich@gmail.com
    Tel  360 515 0119  --  Cell  360 388 6525





  • 17.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 22 days ago
    Yes, this is an older thread, but did Ed McMorrow ever clarify the concept?
    -chris

    ------------------------------
    Troubles are Bubbles, and they just float away.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Knoxville, TN
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 21 days ago
    Since the purpose of a patent is to give the inventor exclusive use of the invention (and presumably to make money), the verbiage in the patent is inherently legal, technical, and very hard to understand. This is by design. If the inventor makes it easy to understand it partially defeats the purpose. It's the book sales that simplify it and picture it where the money is to be made, as well as licensing the process or technology.

    The lawyer will tell you not to make it easy to understand, but rather to cover every possible base that could be imitated, and do so in technical language that only a lawyer can understand.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 20 days ago
    Glad there is new interest in the Fully Tempered Duplex Scale, (FTDS), I think around 30 pianos have been fitted with now. If all is properly done, the clarity, warmth, sustain and power of the top treble sections is wonderful.

    FTDS allows one to optimize the pivot termination function, control noises created by Longitudinal modes and avoid consonance between the duplex segment and the speaking length. The Acetyl co-polymer duplex rests allow for very smooth tuning in the treble as well. Plus a corroding string can't bond with the co-polymer because nothing in the known universe bonds with the stuff.

    My work developing FTDS also allows me to better understand how inaudible Longitudinal mode energy can be coupled into the transverse string modes creating false beats. Much of the objectionable noises we hear in piano scales that I and others used to attribute to inharmonicity is actually due to L-mode interactions with T-modes.

    L-mode scale modeling has allowed me to solve scale problems better than just about any other modeling scheme I know of. I believe it is why Hybrid Wire Scaling Protocols are so successful.


    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 19 days ago
    Ed,

    Did you experiment with Delrin, a reasonably close cousin to acetal copolymer? If so, what difference did you find?

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Journal article in march on "Fully Tempered Duplex Scale'

    Posted 19 days ago
    Delrin is quite similar, the samples I tested were slightly less firm. (My patent claims do cover delrin and other similar materials). If I were a manufacturer I would use a glass filled co-polymer as it is a firmer yet. I may order some now because my present stock is almost depleted.

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------