You went:
" Bill - I hope you are right. My information came from Jergen Goering who told me it was a brand new thing in hammer production. Either I misunderstood him or it is getting worse and we don't know yet. However..."
It would be beneficial for the quality of these discussions, to have him go on record with this remark. I like to chase things down which "sound too good (here, fantastic) to be true". Maybe he won't want to because the observation was made to him by someone else in confidence. But until it's attributed, it's hear-say. Sorry to be such a hard-xxx, but if anyone is going to repeat this remark, it should be vetted.
Could you check this out? Thanks in advance…
P.S. Speaking of which, the hammers of concern are Renner Blue Points. The "point" of course is an imitation of Steinway's diamond shape, except that, instead of instead of creating the diamond shape by skiving the hammer felt before it goes into the cauls (as Steinway does), Renner simply takes their normal round-shape skiving and presses the round shape flat with extra pressure in the cauls. Making for unbelievably dense shoulders. This, from their (correction: p.2 of the RBP Voicing Protocol), and they're proud of it. (…How's that for industry gossip <G>)
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William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 11-27-2021 14:27
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: Voicing with Lanolin?
Bill - I hope you are right. My information came from Jergen Goering who told me it was a brand new thing in hammer production. Either I misunderstood him or it is getting worse and we don't know yet. However...
Susan et al: Although I deal with this problem a great deal, it is on pianos that haven't been tuned in 10-30 years. I think it may be irrelevant in my case whether there is a high level of lanolin or not. LOL!
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Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
Original Message:
Sent: 11-27-2021 11:58
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Voicing with Lanolin?
Hi, Maggie
Ted Sambell used to say that cleanliness was the best defense -- take out the keys and vacuum the punchings and the area around them.
They have a nasty habit of eating up the hair on cello bows, but only if they are in soft cases. So I drove a few nails in the wall next to the piano, and I hang the cello bows there. They don't seem able to get into the hard case, and they don't attack horsehair which is out in public, so to speak.
Ted used to quote someone (grinning): "The only way to kill a moth with a mothball is by a direct hit." Only apparently, you can poison the little creeps (and yourself) with them.
Original Message:
Sent: 11/27/2021 9:07:00 AM
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: RE: Voicing with Lanolin?
Bill - Thanks for taking the time to share that. It makes me sad that we might have to choose between more moth proof & tone, but I'd bet that is true. Just part of the business, I suppose. In my area, it's not the hammers but the felt punchings that are quickly devoured. Annoying, but at least it's an easy (although time consuming) repair. I've gotten fairly quick with it from so much practice. 😉
Susan - interesting article. I may try cedar or lavender again. I've had luck with cayenne pepper. Mice hate the stuff. I suspect moths don't either, but don't have evidence...yet. 😉
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Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
Original Message:
Sent: 11-27-2021 08:10
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Voicing with Lanolin?
Thanks, Maggie
Your point about lanolin being the "secret sauce" that attracts moths is well-taken.
You went:
"It is also my understanding that some wool processors are not taking out as much lanolin as they used to in order to save money. So, I expect we will all have an influx in moth damage in 10-20 years."
We are now 11 years into that prediction:
"On Jul 31, 2010, at 1:25 PM, Fred Sturm wrote:
My thinking is that it is a question of friction, that there is too
much friction between the wool fibers and the needles. It's not a new observation - 30 years ago I was told voicers commonly wiped their needles through their hair every few insertions (in the says of
"greasy kid's stuff"), to make it easier to insert them. But some
hammers are quite slick for voicing when brand new, like the Abel
Naturals. Even though they are relatively dense. We are told that the
felt for these hammers is washed and processed with less harsh
solutions, and maybe some lanolin is added back in (I seem to remember
hearing that from Wally or Helmut).
The lanolin solution had no obvious effect on the tone quality by itself -
or none that I particularly noticed. If there was a change, it was an
improvement (it didn't seem to need voicing as badly as I thought it
did Monday, but my ears and perception can easily change that much
from day to day).
From Paul T Williams <pwilliams4@unlnotes.unl.edu>
This is why I love the Abel Naturals from Wally! They refrain from
washing them so much that the lanolin disappears. It really makes for a
wonderful hammer with lots of give, yet the power we need. The lanolin is
why they're not bright white."
The above from https://my.ptg.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?GroupId=1171&MID=317572&CommunityKey=e2c6a925-0387-4a43-8920-02dd4c8d591a&tab=digestviewer#bm14
------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
Original Message:
Sent: 11-26-2021 22:11
From: Maggie Jusiel
Subject: Voicing with Lanolin?
Just a thought: Check me on this & let me know if I'm wrong. It's my understanding that naturally occurring lanolin in wool is what moth larvae eat. The higher quality the wool for pianos, the lower the lanolin content & the less likely you are to have nasties eating it. I have no idea how much lanolin would be needed to attract nasties that otherwise wouldn't be attracted to it, but it occurred to me that adding too much of it might be a bad idea if one is in an area prone to moth infestations.
It is also my understanding that some wool processors are not taking out as much lanolin as they used to in order to save money. So, I expect we will all have an influx in moth damage in 10-20 years.
*shrug*
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Maggie Jusiel, RPT
Athens, WV
(304)952-8615
mags@timandmaggie.net
Original Message:
Sent: 11-26-2021 20:12
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Voicing with Lanolin?
Found a bunch of 'em: https://my.ptg.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?GroupId=49&MID=664957&CommunityKey=76c8d8e5-6fa1-4522-9fa9-006ff252729b&tab=digestviewer
CU Sunday
------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
Original Message:
Sent: 11-26-2021 13:58
From: Patrick Draine
Subject: Voicing with Lanolin?
Hi Bill,
I think Fred Sturm had written on lanolin and voicing. Try the search function?
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Patrick Draine
Billerica MA
978-663-9690
Original Message:
Sent: 11-26-2021 12:59
From: Bill Ballard
Subject: Voicing with Lanolin?
Does anyone have any experience with this, possibly thinned to a liquid. I'm guessing that lanolin contribution wouldn't be so much lubricating the sliding contact between adjacent fibers during an elastic deformation, but more just as a matter of increasing the suppleness of individual fibers (read, increasing the springiness of fibers). Apparently the only thing that lanolin gives sheep is waterproofing their coats.
Yes, Abel's "Natural Felt" hammers are a welcome choice, as the chemicals and processes used to wash out extraneous organic matter actually damage/degrade the springiness of fibers. But in this case, would the damage done by harsh treatment be reparable by a dose of lanolin.
TIA
------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------