Pianotech

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Transplant the player system into another piano.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Bummer

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Laura, 

What has been the clients reaction thus far? Is the piano a family "heirloom"? Are they on a budget, or is cost not an issue?  Just curious. 

Personally I wouldn't touch it unless it was getting an entirely new keyset and WNG action. Then perhaps a new player system...but then they might as well just go buy a new piano (unless they are totally invested in this one).

Oh and loose tuning pins...new pinblock etc.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

If you get action ratio to 5- 51/2 you will be able to regulate it and have reasonable amount of key leads. Perhaps less expensive way to work with ratio in this case is playing with capstan position and relocating ( expanding) wippens hills. QRS that age has individual setting of touch to each key- with decent regulation you will be able to make it.

Alexander Brusilovsky


Original Message:
Sent: 10/26/2020 8:57:00 AM
From: Peter Grey
Subject: RE: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Laura, 

What has been the clients reaction thus far? Is the piano a family "heirloom"? Are they on a budget, or is cost not an issue?  Just curious. 

Personally I wouldn't touch it unless it was getting an entirely new keyset and WNG action. Then perhaps a new player system...but then they might as well just go buy a new piano (unless they are totally invested in this one).

Oh and loose tuning pins...new pinblock etc.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".  
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Don't make their problem, your problem.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Laura

As much as you want help your customer, I agree with Jon. They are not going to like what you're telling them, but that's the reality of the situation.  Explain as simple as possible that this piano is a mess, and that the problems were not caused by the move or the dry air. 

just say no thank you.  

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10/26/2020 4:09:00 PM
From: Willem Blees
Subject: RE: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Laura

As much as you want help your customer, I agree with Jon. They are not going to like what you're telling them, but that's the reality of the situation.  Explain as simple as possible that this piano is a mess, and that the problems were not caused by the move or the dry air. 

just say no thank you.  

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

Most old Knabe grands I've seen were under-engineered and seemed especially vulnerable to dry environments.
This is not a win/win situation. It isn't a piano you'll look forward to seeing twice a year.
Let someone else take the risk.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 16:57
From: Ruth Zeiner
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Laura,

I'm going to add my voice (of experience) with all the others who are encouraging you to

turn and run, not walk, away. A move from wet to dry just adds to the pile of possible things

that will undoubtedly go wrong. I've refused payment for my professional advice in similar cases,

as it was the best way out. Just Say No.

Ruth

 

Ruth Zeiner

215-534-3834 cell

ruth@alliedpiano.com

 

Original Message:
Sent: 10/26/2020 4:09:00 PM
From: Willem Blees
Subject: RE: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Laura

As much as you want help your customer, I agree with Jon. They are not going to like what you're telling them, but that's the reality of the situation.  Explain as simple as possible that this piano is a mess, and that the problems were not caused by the move or the dry air. 

just say no thank you.  

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

As a follow up.  The customer is probably going to react in a very negative way. They will say because you're a woman and live in a "remote" part of the county, that you don't know what you're doing. Accept that, and move on. Let them find someone from the "big city" and pay through the nose to be told the same thing.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

What you are seeing such as slow playing keys, note drops during player playback and the poor rebuild . The action needs to be gone over and made working with attention to hammer flange centers, jack movement, rep  springs. It sounds like they want the piano to just play. That is a very tall order and unless you have training in QRS/Pianomation installation you will never get it playing correctly. I am not sure what front end box is on at The Petine, The
Anch0 , the Chili and if they use a remote like a tv/cable remote . Calibration on earlier units required a test box called the "knob box" . Newer systems are controlled and calibrated using the IPAD .

 Take our advice an bail. You can only do so much for a badly rebuilt piano. Find someone in the area who is QRS trained and explain the situation. It would be wise to take pictures of the unit, get the model and serial numbers of everything including the piano. There is a play button on the system unit with some stored songs. Test programs on the knob box test individual keys fro A0 to the top you can observe the worst keys and make a note of them with chaulk

We hear these lines all the time "it worked before"

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 16:11
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

As a follow up.  The customer is probably going to react in a very negative way. They will say because you're a woman and live in a "remote" part of the county, that you don't know what you're doing. Accept that, and move on. Let them find someone from the "big city" and pay through the nose to be told the same thing.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

As Ruth said, "...run, don't walk..." away from this situation.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-27-2020 11:30
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

What you are seeing such as slow playing keys, note drops during player playback and the poor rebuild . The action needs to be gone over and made working with attention to hammer flange centers, jack movement, rep  springs. It sounds like they want the piano to just play. That is a very tall order and unless you have training in QRS/Pianomation installation you will never get it playing correctly. I am not sure what front end box is on at The Petine, The
Anch0 , the Chili and if they use a remote like a tv/cable remote . Calibration on earlier units required a test box called the "knob box" . Newer systems are controlled and calibrated using the IPAD .

 Take our advice an bail. You can only do so much for a badly rebuilt piano. Find someone in the area who is QRS trained and explain the situation. It would be wise to take pictures of the unit, get the model and serial numbers of everything including the piano. There is a play button on the system unit with some stored songs. Test programs on the knob box test individual keys fro A0 to the top you can observe the worst keys and make a note of them with chaulk

We hear these lines all the time "it worked before"

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 16:11
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

As a follow up.  The customer is probably going to react in a very negative way. They will say because you're a woman and live in a "remote" part of the county, that you don't know what you're doing. Accept that, and move on. Let them find someone from the "big city" and pay through the nose to be told the same thing.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------

If they are dead set on this pso, then a used set of wippens might alleviate the situation. I think I have a set of wips from a Jewett grand. Then again, no use beating a dead horse.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-27-2020 13:30
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

As Ruth said, "...run, don't walk..." away from this situation.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483

Original Message:
Sent: 10-27-2020 11:30
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

What you are seeing such as slow playing keys, note drops during player playback and the poor rebuild . The action needs to be gone over and made working with attention to hammer flange centers, jack movement, rep  springs. It sounds like they want the piano to just play. That is a very tall order and unless you have training in QRS/Pianomation installation you will never get it playing correctly. I am not sure what front end box is on at The Petine, The
Anch0 , the Chili and if they use a remote like a tv/cable remote . Calibration on earlier units required a test box called the "knob box" . Newer systems are controlled and calibrated using the IPAD .

 Take our advice an bail. You can only do so much for a badly rebuilt piano. Find someone in the area who is QRS trained and explain the situation. It would be wise to take pictures of the unit, get the model and serial numbers of everything including the piano. There is a play button on the system unit with some stored songs. Test programs on the knob box test individual keys fro A0 to the top you can observe the worst keys and make a note of them with chaulk

We hear these lines all the time "it worked before"

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 16:11
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

As a follow up.  The customer is probably going to react in a very negative way. They will say because you're a woman and live in a "remote" part of the county, that you don't know what you're doing. Accept that, and move on. Let them find someone from the "big city" and pay through the nose to be told the same thing.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 12:32
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Peter and all,
the clients reaction continues to be "just get the notes to work".
Apparently they paid A LOT of money for this piano about 9 years ago from a "rebuilder's" shop and had the player installed.  They say it was all working "fine" until they moved here, had it in storage, and recently set up in their house.  They moved it here (VERY dry) from a much damper climate.  Although I hardly think all these problems were caused by moving!  (possibly the loose pins, but not the rest)
When they turned on the player for me it worked per se, it was moving the keys, but the hammers actually striking the strings was pretty hit and miss.  The guy said, "see it works pretty well" which tells me it may never have worked much better than it is now.

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 11:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Gregory Cheng is absolutely correct.  Irrefutable advise.  They need to count their loses and chalk it up to an unfortunate experience.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-26-2020 07:43
From: Gregory Cheng
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I would decline the whole thing.  While yes you could rescue QRS components and re-do the rails and such, I believe it best to dump the whole thing.  It just isn't worth it.  Reconfiguring the player to work on another piano will take more time to redo than to install a new one on a new piano.  It can be done I am sure but I wouldn't do it and the customer wouldn't save money.  Also it is also 9 years old.  Todays technology is far superior than 2011.  Are you still using your iPhone2 from a 3g network?  Because that is what you are doing.  New piano, old player, bad combo.

------------------------------
Gregory Cheng, RPT

Original Message:
Sent: 10-25-2020 00:05
From: James Kelly
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

I suggest you get the serial number off the QRS processor unit and contact QRS/Pianomation to get an accurate date on the system. As the piano stands now it will never play properly as a piano or a QRS player piano. To work properly with the QRS player equipment the piano needs to be regulated and tuned. The player components need to be properly installed and calibrated with the correct amount of solenoid force. I would think there is/will be very erratic playback with notes of non playing or barely sounding notes  . Before doing anything test to make sure the thing even plays. With slow hammers, heavy down weight, weak rep springs and no letoff it is a train wreck. Shame on someone if they put a qrs system in a piano in such poor condition and told it was a rebuild. Removing the player system and putting it in another better piano may be the best option however bear in mind a slot needs to be precisely cut in the keybed to mount the solenoids . This is a job best for an experienced installer. Also the age of the components may not justify the cost of the effort to remove it and reinstall it.  If I were you I would decline the gig

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 20:50
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Lauren

So basically what they have is a car with bad spark plugs, bad timing, loose belts, the alternator is shot, and, btw, the tires are bald, and the customer is concerned that cruise control is not working right. As Jon said, salvage the QRS and put in another piano, because that action will never play right.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 10-24-2020 19:42
From: Laura Wright
Subject: Trying to fix botched action rebuild

Hello all,
I recently acquired a client who owns an old "rebuilt" Knabe with possibly the worst action "rebuild" I've ever seen.  Wippens were replaced with old Steinway wippens, which meant the capstans and heels didn't align, so guess what?  Let's just move those pesky capstans forward 1/2 inch or so, now they line up, but hmmm the keys don't play right, so let's put about 7 or 8 leads in each one, including the treble, oh and how about some new keytops (who needs to trim those), etc. etc. Not to mention the loose tuning pins, but that's not what this post is about.

So here's the question.  The piano has a QRS player installed, about 9 years ago they said.  Neither person plays the piano, only the Qrs player does.  The hammer flanges have become quite sticky, so it is really not able to be played at all.  They want me to fix it so the Player can play the piano, and I experimented with a few sample notes to see if it was possible to regulate it at all.  (Right now there is zero letoff, the rep springs are extremely weak, key dip is less than 3/8", and downweight is around 70 grams plus.)  I was actually able to get the samples to cycle through in a somewhat acceptable way; so my question is, if I go ahead and regulate it to where all the keys will actually play, will this incredible uneveness and high downweight damage the player system?  Again, they don't care if an actual human can play it, they just want their player to work.
Any suggestions, information, or help will be greatly appreciated!!


P.S. I forgot to mention the new knuckles on old shanks that were painted with what I can only guess is DAG....!!  I'm not kidding!

------------------------------
Laura Wright, RPT
Ivory Keys Piano Service
Durango CO
------------------------------