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Yamaha Celestes

  • 1.  Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-04-2020 09:33

    Hi all,

     

    We here at Uof SC are shopping for a new Celeste.  I'm wondering if anyone has experience with the Yamaha? If they're great, they run only about 20K while the only other maker in Austria costs about 50-60K.

     

    Thanks

    Paul

     



  • 2.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-04-2020 15:04
    There's also Shiedmayer
    https://www.celesta-schiedmayer.de/en/

    ------------------------------
    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Posted 01-04-2020 19:49
    Hi Paul, So for many years we rented locally in Boston whenever any of the large ensembles at  BU had programmed repertoire  requiring celeste , if it was a  6 week rehearsal cycle for example we would use an upright piano for the first 4 weeks of  rehearsal then  rent the celeste for  final reh's and  concert, invariably repairs were needed on these heavily rented instruments so they often waived the rental fee. This all changed  when I learned that the Boston Symphony were selling their celeste to purchase a new instrument so I grabbed the opportunity at $2500  and invested  minor monies to  repair etc..  It came along with the hard  traveling case that the BSO  had used for their tours. I'd recommend putting out  feelers to see if any  large orchestras are similarly looking to sell their house celeste.
    We could  have generated rental income from the celeste but decided  not to go this route. Let me know if you decide to  go the Yamaha route if a used instrument  is not available, and I can ask my friendly Yamaha dealer for special pricing !!........best  martin.
    www.snowpianos.com

    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    South Burlington VT
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-05-2020 03:51
    Newport Symphony's conductor Adam Flatt also conducts two other orchestras. The one in Colorado is buying a new Yamaha celesta.

    He said the range was just enough greater to get the all the notes in the Nutcracker's Sugar Plum fairy.

    There is a considerable wait time.

    ------------------------------
    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 5.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Posted 01-05-2020 13:39


    My college ended up getting a reconditioned Schiedmeyer. Supposedly the band director
    and orchestra director claimed there was
    a need to own one as they had to borrow
    the local symphony's or from one of
    the High Schools. (I believe all those
    were Jenco celestas)

     The one they bought was not refinished and it has many blems. With that said, had that not been available, I think the Yamaha would have been a great choice (but still out of a small school budget)....the Yamaha has a piano action and would be easier to maintain.

    The Schiedmeyer we acquired was quite sharp...
    not A-440.  Maybe it goes flat
    under the stage lights?

    Once when tuning the concert grand to A-440
    the celesta was sitting next to it. I mentioned it to the orchestra manager and
    he told the conductor who said not to worry
    about it!

    From the audience I don't think you could tell.

    I think the Jenco I'll discuss was A-440. 

    If that matters.

    The celesta here is rarely used
     and mostly sits backstage (covered) taking up space, here. Your needs may be greater but is it $50-60K or even $20--30K greater???.

    Is the compass enough for Nutcracker on this 
    used one?


    I think Coe payed around $14K for the reconditioned Schiedmeyer. I think
    it is a 5 octave model, but they
    also make a 5 1/2 octave instrument.

    The local symphony has a Jenco. The touch
    feels a bit sloppy, but I was able to regulate
    the let off so that it was more even. They
    didn't want to put any money into it, so
    it was a labor of love/learning experience.
    I would like to rebush the keys, but that's
    not going to happen as long as they can
    get by for the few times they need it. It
    just has to work!

     I used Schiedmeyer regulation specs to work on the Jenco. Granted they are quite different.

    The Schiedmeyer has hard large felt hammers while the Jenco has wooden cores covered by a thin layer of felt. (You can get good felt
    for that from Jurgen. It should be easy to recover a set.)

    Both celestas have stiff rod/wire mechanics.

    So there's a bit of swing and wobble going
    on in there. (Picture is of a Schiedmeyer.)

    image.png


    The Jenco is quite loud and the Schidemeyer
    is mellower.

    I don't know what the Yamaha sounds like.
    I'm told it plays more like a piano in
    feel and the keyboardists might
    find it more likeable.

    The Schiedmeyer has a greater compass than
    the Jenco. 

    Curiously the local symphony
    has not had an issue playing Nutcracker
    with their 4 octave Jenco. 

    I can't say about other works.

    They've never asked to borrow our
    Schiedmeyer, so it must not be 
    a problem.

    There are many, many Jenco celestas in
    the USA, so you may find a good one that
    could just be fixed up for much less
    than the Schiedmeyer.

    I'm not sure the compass of the Yamaha.
    You'd want to check that out.


    Like pianos, they do eventually need to
    be regulated, voiced or reconditioned.
    I think any technician/rebuilder could
    take that job on. It's very apparent what
    needs doing once you see inside and
    know the Schiemeyer methods. They have
    a .pdf on their website, I think.

    Best of luck finding a good one.

    --
     Richard Adkins 
     Keyboard Tuning and Maintenance
     Curator of Instruments 
             
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  • 6.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-06-2020 07:15

    Thanks for the info. I've never heard of Jenco. Are they still in production?  I spoke with our director of the symphony and he is wanting more info on a Yamaha and I think he wants to buy new. The Scheidmeyer is really too expensive to buy new.

     

    Best,

    Paul

     






  • 7.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-06-2020 12:59

    I respect Yamaha as a manufacturing company but from all evidence we found during our research of Celesta the bars in the Yamaha are too similar, if not the same, as their Glock bars.

    The originator of Celesta is Sheidmayer and the worked out a very reasonable pricing along with a road crate to store and move it. The faculty at WCU appreciated the purchase and have used for many performances throughout the year including new compositions.  The nicest part of the purchase was we were able to specify the pitch of the instrument.  435 - 440 - 441 - 442 specifically for our instrument.  Not sure if the other company provides that specification or option in theirs.

    There was an excellent class on the maintenance of the instrument which I took at the Norfolk Technical Institute and other owners in the Philly region have had me provide the servicing. Scheidmayer is also very easy to work with for any technical needs.

    Hoping this is helpful.



    ------------------------------
    Gerry
    Gerald P. Cousins, RPT ~ Director of Piano Service and Resources
    West Chester University of PA
    gcousins@wcupa.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Posted 01-05-2020 13:45
    Here is an interior picture of the Jenco celestes. They are rebuildable.
    If you have the time to search one out, you may be able to get
    one very reasonably. Perhaps this is what you already have, though,
    and they want a new one. If they have the funds, great!



    ------------------------------
    Richard Adkins
    Piano Technician
    Coe College
    Cedar Rapids, IA
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  • 9.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-13-2020 15:36
    We have a Yamaha at UNM (purchased by the band director without consulting me). The tone bars are much narrower, with a sound to match - they are 1/2" wide, matching the width of the backs of the keys, compared to 1 1/2" on "real" celestes. That's how they are able to use a grand piano action instead of having three tiers and down-striking hammers. If you don't need a bigger sound, it will do, but it lacks "presence" and "ring" to my ear.

    Before the band director bought the Yamaha, I had been looking for a used one. Pretty hard to come by, though I did come across a couple good leads, and was just getting ready to approach the orchestra director about it. Oh, well.

    As far as I have been able to tell, Schiedmayer is the only company still making real celestes, which were invented by Mustel around 1880 (first used in orchestration by Tchaikovsky). I've done considerable work in recent years on a variety of local (within 300 miles) celestes, including Jenco, Mustel, Cromwell, and Schiedmayer. Schiedmayer was by far the best, though the Mustel could be close if it were somewhat newer than its 60+ years. Schiedmayer added some refinements to the original design, most of which seem very positive.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-13-2020 16:20

    Thanks Fred and all,

    Yes, Shiedmeyer is the only real celeste. I hear that Tchaikovski actually discovered this instrument and snuck in back home and didn't reveal it until its' debut to keep all others away from it. Ha!

     

    It still is the best and true maker of Celestes, but wonder if only used 2-3 time a year, is worth the huge cost of a new one?

     

    Paul

     






  • 11.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-13-2020 16:39
    That's a judgment call. How important is it? And what are the alternatives? (Borrow, find a used one, use an electronic emulator). I'd leave that to the ones making the spending decisions, and simply state the facts. A Yamaha will probably work for their purposes. OTOH, a Schiedmayer will sound and feel like a more professional instrument. Does it matter that students be exposed to a real one, both in sound and action? Their call.
    "Believe those who seek the truth; doubt those who find it; doubt everything but yourself." Gide






  • 12.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-13-2020 16:44

    Fred,

     

    This would be used by not only the SC Phil, but our USC orchestra for basically Nutcracker (several performances every year) and whatever else they use it for.

     

    It has to be good, not a digital joke of an instrument. We are wondering if Yamaha is a good instrument.  I have yet to get a good response about the Yamahas.  I'm not sure if we have the 60K for a real one.

     

    Paul

     






  • 13.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-13-2020 16:52
    Fred and all.
    A Celeste maker was exhibiting in St. Louis a few years ago. Anyone remember who that was? The instrument was amazing.

    Doug Garman, RPT
    Doug Garman Piano Service
    817-578-4796
    Schedule your next tuning appointment at: https://gazelleapp.io/scheduling/Qt0mmtkYGCKNjCLFVjT3Wdjv




  • 14.  RE: Yamaha Celestes

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-13-2020 17:23
    Doug, that was probably Shiedmayer, I think one of the children lives in the states, I met her at a performing arts conference one year.

    One thing I tell clients asking for this kind of advice is that if they get a top flight instrument, their institution will be covered for generations (long after the current stakeholders are gone). Considering the 75-100+ years life span the expense isn't so great. 

    Perhaps the dance department and symphony can chip in as they are prime beneficiaries.


    ------------------------------
    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
    ------------------------------