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ebony piano refinish products

  • 1.  ebony piano refinish products

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2020 11:37
    Good morning learned colleagues - product question for you all.  I have been working on a 1926 Kimball grand.  was originally black/lacquer, I have it stripped down to the veneer (had to replace a huge area on bass side that was split and loose).  I am wondering what are the current "go to" products for leveling, grain filling and final black/lacquer (acrylic?) coats.

    thanks

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    Thane Yennie - RPT
    Cheyenne WY
    307-871-8718
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  • 2.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-20-2020 11:59
    Call Arthur Grudko.  He makes Pianolac, a spray filler, amazing primer, and a black ebony which is the nicest I've seen. Its all water based, and doesn't stink  845 855 0996  he's in NY. I use it on all my rebuilds.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 3.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2020 15:01
    Thank you Jim!  
    Will give him a call soon.

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    Thane Yennie - RPT
    Cheyenne WY
    307-871-8718
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  • 4.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-20-2020 15:56
    For any interested in what a water base ebony looks like, Arthur's black is really one of the best blacks I've seen.  This Bechstein is all water based Pianolac  


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 5.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-20-2020 17:13
    Jim - Any chance a person might get a passable finish  (not high polished, mirror gloss) with that product using decent brushes?

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    Jurgen Goering
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  • 6.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-20-2020 20:38
    I use the black primer on the underside of a grand, and apply with a foam brush. The leveling is amazing. I haven't tried it topside, but might be worth a try. I don't think the gloss top coats would work at all..the primer would be the one to try. I do know some techs who have used the primer, by itself, though I think they sprayed it. It is a good one or two coat university grade practice room finish...its satin and quite nice all by itself. 

    Also, I spent some time last summer coming up with a semi-filled, no rub ebony, which clear coats Arthur's primer or gloss black with 1 final coat of satin Enduro clear poly (water based).  It actually is aesthetically, our preferred way to do a finish. As a wood guy, high gloss  or satin rubbed filled  piano finishes get my yuck-and-a-half 2 star rating, because the case no longer has any appearance of wood. I greatly prefer the semi-filled, clear coated satin off-the-gun look.


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 7.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-21-2020 08:46
    JIm, Do you prime with anything in between the wood and those water based finishes?  I've used General FInishes quite a bit, and I need to spray a layer a shellac down before spraying anything.  Otherwise, the finish will crack or fish eye.  
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    -Matt Crudo, RPT 
     





  • 8.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-21-2020 09:21
    Are you stripping first or finishing over an existing finish?

    I used to prime with shellac, but found adhesion was not not what the finishing articles advertised. Plus Arthur said afterward it was a bad idea to shellac under Pianolac.

    I have never had any finish interaction problems with water based products. You may be having issues like fisheye, if you are sanding with a stearated paper. The stearates will definitely create fisheye type problems. On plates, re the article I wrote in the journal a little while ago, primed with Stix insl-x, over existing finishes, eliminates all kinds of intercoat problems I used to have with solvent finishes.

    How thick are you spraying. Spraying 1 to 2 mil wet coat thickness, avoids all kinds of problems. Thick coatings are nothing but problems. This may be the problem with cracking, which I have never experienced at all with water based finishes.

    Also, re fisheye, is your compressor introducing oil into the line...and if the compressor is an oilless compressor, that air will be hot, and full of problematic humidity.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 9.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-21-2020 09:29
    Matteo,  do you mean micro-bubbles rather than fisheye?

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 10.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-21-2020 10:32
    Jim, Thanks for the advice.  I'll check our sand paper out.  We spray 1-2mil coats, Compressor is not oilless, but I haven't noticed oil leaking into the line.  We check and clean periodically.  We primarily get cracking when using a color paint over an existing, but the cracking doesn't happen until we spray a clear coat over it.  We've since elliminated that with a shellac coat or a prime coat with Zissner 123.  Water based clear finishes haven't been as problematic after we've stripped and cleaned and sanded wood, but I'v been hesitant to use them just from the issues that we've had before.  Do you use Pianolac for wood finishes as well?  What grain filler that works with that?  
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    -Matt Crudo, RPT 
     





  • 11.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-21-2020 11:14
    Arthur has a full schedule of products for clear or ebony, including an excellent spray filler.  Chat with him...he is full of ideas and procedures.THe number was posted above

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 12.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-21-2020 13:31
    I bought an order of Pianolac from Arthur a number of years ago, with the hopes that my partner would use it to finish a Baldwin Grand that I was working on. The purchase included an HVLP spray gun that Arthur was selling at the time (I think I paid approx. $3-400 for it), and my partner (who came from auto body work) had his own gun, and didn't like (wasn't used to) the new gun, and only used it once.  I think I may have used it subsequently, I hope I cleaned it correctly, and it has been sitting in my shop ever since.   If someone would have a use for it, I would be willing to sell it relatively cheaply.   It has been sitting for a number of years, and if it needed new seals or a tip, I think that that would be no problem to obtain.   Clark

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    Clark Sprague
    Bowling Green OH
    419-352-2198
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  • 13.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Posted 05-21-2020 13:50
    I have a Turbinaire (purchased from Arthur), it's a great gun. Switch it back to HVLP and you'll be all set.  Turbinaire is no longer in business but all parts are pretty much generic, as far as seals go that is.  I have a later version than yours. I like it much better than the older model.  Is you cup Teflon lined?

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 14.  RE: ebony piano refinish products

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-21-2020 18:27
    You'll probably want a new 1 quart cup, as I used it to do something
    else, and it wouldn't clean out well.?? The rest of the gun is good,
    though.?? Only used a few times.

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    Clark A. Sprague, RPT www.clarkspianoservice.com