Pianotech

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.


------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Ok, Great !   So now, the new NY s/f are to Hamburg specs.  Will Steinway still supply the 23 mm iteration?
I've only had one NY action require a Hamburg shank. The heck with pre and post '84 parts.

Good thing there are after-market suppliers.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 12:37
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.

New York Improved Shanks and Current Hamburg Shanks both have the centerpin 24 mm from the flange hole center. The Hamburg flange has a larger hole (6mm).
Hamburg Steinway uses Maple shipped from New York in their rims and has since the '90s. Steinway New York does not disclose their hammer felt supplier but is willing to say that they have a supplier other than Bacon. New York Improved action parts are made in the New York factory at 1 Steinway Place. The New York polished ebony pianos are finished in Polyester. The case arms as of this year are (unfortunately IMHO) identical in both New York and Hamburg.

To your request for suggested reading:

Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias
006856 ( NY parts department number)
WORLDWIDE TECHNICAL REFERENCE GUIDE (ON MEMORY STICK ONLY)
006888 ( NY parts dept number )
BOOK- THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO STEINWAY PIANOS, R. KEHL & D. KIRKLAND
The Steinway Saga by D.W. Fostle
Steinway by Ronald Ratcliffe.

Kudos on looking to learn more.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

I'm pretty sure the 24 mm distance has been constant since the New York Improved was introduced back in 93 or so. The oldest examples I have in my shop currently are from 98 and that's how they measure out. For 23 mm I think you'd have to go back to something made between 1964 and 1992 or as you mention aftermarket.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 13:50
From: Jon Page
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

Ok, Great !   So now, the new NY s/f are to Hamburg specs.  Will Steinway still supply the 23 mm iteration?
I've only had one NY action require a Hamburg shank. The heck with pre and post '84 parts.

Good thing there are after-market suppliers.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 12:37
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.

New York Improved Shanks and Current Hamburg Shanks both have the centerpin 24 mm from the flange hole center. The Hamburg flange has a larger hole (6mm).
Hamburg Steinway uses Maple shipped from New York in their rims and has since the '90s. Steinway New York does not disclose their hammer felt supplier but is willing to say that they have a supplier other than Bacon. New York Improved action parts are made in the New York factory at 1 Steinway Place. The New York polished ebony pianos are finished in Polyester. The case arms as of this year are (unfortunately IMHO) identical in both New York and Hamburg.

To your request for suggested reading:

Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias
006856 ( NY parts department number)
WORLDWIDE TECHNICAL REFERENCE GUIDE (ON MEMORY STICK ONLY)
006888 ( NY parts dept number )
BOOK- THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO STEINWAY PIANOS, R. KEHL & D. KIRKLAND
The Steinway Saga by D.W. Fostle
Steinway by Ronald Ratcliffe.

Kudos on looking to learn more.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Wow, a reply actually worked. Thank you web administrator.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 14:26
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

I'm pretty sure the 24 mm distance has been constant since the New York Improved was introduced back in 93 or so. The oldest examples I have in my shop currently are from 98 and that's how they measure out. For 23 mm I think you'd have to go back to something made between 1964 and 1992 or as you mention aftermarket.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 13:50
From: Jon Page
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

Ok, Great !   So now, the new NY s/f are to Hamburg specs.  Will Steinway still supply the 23 mm iteration?
I've only had one NY action require a Hamburg shank. The heck with pre and post '84 parts.

Good thing there are after-market suppliers.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 12:37
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.

New York Improved Shanks and Current Hamburg Shanks both have the centerpin 24 mm from the flange hole center. The Hamburg flange has a larger hole (6mm).
Hamburg Steinway uses Maple shipped from New York in their rims and has since the '90s. Steinway New York does not disclose their hammer felt supplier but is willing to say that they have a supplier other than Bacon. New York Improved action parts are made in the New York factory at 1 Steinway Place. The New York polished ebony pianos are finished in Polyester. The case arms as of this year are (unfortunately IMHO) identical in both New York and Hamburg.

To your request for suggested reading:

Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias
006856 ( NY parts department number)
WORLDWIDE TECHNICAL REFERENCE GUIDE (ON MEMORY STICK ONLY)
006888 ( NY parts dept number )
BOOK- THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO STEINWAY PIANOS, R. KEHL & D. KIRKLAND
The Steinway Saga by D.W. Fostle
Steinway by Ronald Ratcliffe.

Kudos on looking to learn more.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

So some New Parts Installer wanting to be 100% S&S, will find out that a .391" key dip as original will not be possible. It'll be more towards .420". Unless they have the means to increase Key Ratio.

Will hammers be hung at 129 mm instead of 130 mm? Top Action relocation maybe be needed too.

Restoration will be impossible without a vintage decal and properly fitting parts. At least trying to maintain 100% S&S parts.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 14:28
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

Wow, a reply actually worked. Thank you web administrator.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 14:26
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

I'm pretty sure the 24 mm distance has been constant since the New York Improved was introduced back in 93 or so. The oldest examples I have in my shop currently are from 98 and that's how they measure out. For 23 mm I think you'd have to go back to something made between 1964 and 1992 or as you mention aftermarket.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 13:50
From: Jon Page
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

Ok, Great !   So now, the new NY s/f are to Hamburg specs.  Will Steinway still supply the 23 mm iteration?
I've only had one NY action require a Hamburg shank. The heck with pre and post '84 parts.

Good thing there are after-market suppliers.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 12:37
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.

New York Improved Shanks and Current Hamburg Shanks both have the centerpin 24 mm from the flange hole center. The Hamburg flange has a larger hole (6mm).
Hamburg Steinway uses Maple shipped from New York in their rims and has since the '90s. Steinway New York does not disclose their hammer felt supplier but is willing to say that they have a supplier other than Bacon. New York Improved action parts are made in the New York factory at 1 Steinway Place. The New York polished ebony pianos are finished in Polyester. The case arms as of this year are (unfortunately IMHO) identical in both New York and Hamburg.

To your request for suggested reading:

Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias
006856 ( NY parts department number)
WORLDWIDE TECHNICAL REFERENCE GUIDE (ON MEMORY STICK ONLY)
006888 ( NY parts dept number )
BOOK- THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO STEINWAY PIANOS, R. KEHL & D. KIRKLAND
The Steinway Saga by D.W. Fostle
Steinway by Ronald Ratcliffe.

Kudos on looking to learn more.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Great information, thanks Karl!  I've purchased the books referenced in your reply. There was one that I couldn't find. The Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias was not available in any of the locations I checked. 

If you know of a source for this I would be interested in purchasing it. 

Thanks!

Sean

------------------------------
Sean Stafford
Endicott NY
607-239-4643
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 12:37
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.

New York Improved Shanks and Current Hamburg Shanks both have the centerpin 24 mm from the flange hole center. The Hamburg flange has a larger hole (6mm).
Hamburg Steinway uses Maple shipped from New York in their rims and has since the '90s. Steinway New York does not disclose their hammer felt supplier but is willing to say that they have a supplier other than Bacon. New York Improved action parts are made in the New York factory at 1 Steinway Place. The New York polished ebony pianos are finished in Polyester. The case arms as of this year are (unfortunately IMHO) identical in both New York and Hamburg.

To your request for suggested reading:

Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias
006856 ( NY parts department number)
WORLDWIDE TECHNICAL REFERENCE GUIDE (ON MEMORY STICK ONLY)
006888 ( NY parts dept number )
BOOK- THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO STEINWAY PIANOS, R. KEHL & D. KIRKLAND
The Steinway Saga by D.W. Fostle
Steinway by Ronald Ratcliffe.

Kudos on looking to learn more.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Mr. Stafford, I was unaware the Mathias book was out of print. The website sheetmusic.com claims to have one.

Mr. Page, I understand your frustration. You are one of the members of our Organization for whom I have the highest regard . But during the time that Steinway was using the 23 mm spec the string heights and capstan placement were so widely variable as to make touch depth consistency from one piano to the next virtually impossible. In addition on those parts the knuckle was kinda sorta more or less 16 mm from the center pin depending on how recently the machinery had been tested for accuracy. From this level of tomfoolery the New York Improved action was born depending on the dedication of a small group of people over nearly two decades. When it was introduced in 1993 it was orders of magnitude better than what came before. The parts as they exist today are that much better than the parts were when first introduced in 1993. Steinway & Sons does a lot of things I disagree with. That they are making the best wood and felt action parts currently available on planet Earth isn't one of them..

Please forgive any spelling or punctuation errors in this message as I'm having to thumb it out on my phone since the reply function still doesn't work on my desktop.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-02-2019 21:11
From: Sean Stafford
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

Great information, thanks Karl!  I've purchased the books referenced in your reply. There was one that I couldn't find. The Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias was not available in any of the locations I checked.

If you know of a source for this I would be interested in purchasing it.

Thanks!

Sean

------------------------------
Sean Stafford
Endicott NY
607-239-4643

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 12:37
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.

New York Improved Shanks and Current Hamburg Shanks both have the centerpin 24 mm from the flange hole center. The Hamburg flange has a larger hole (6mm).
Hamburg Steinway uses Maple shipped from New York in their rims and has since the '90s. Steinway New York does not disclose their hammer felt supplier but is willing to say that they have a supplier other than Bacon. New York Improved action parts are made in the New York factory at 1 Steinway Place. The New York polished ebony pianos are finished in Polyester. The case arms as of this year are (unfortunately IMHO) identical in both New York and Hamburg.

To your request for suggested reading:

Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias
006856 ( NY parts department number)
WORLDWIDE TECHNICAL REFERENCE GUIDE (ON MEMORY STICK ONLY)
006888 ( NY parts dept number )
BOOK- THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO STEINWAY PIANOS, R. KEHL & D. KIRKLAND
The Steinway Saga by D.W. Fostle
Steinway by Ronald Ratcliffe.

Kudos on looking to learn more.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Thanks again Karl!  I found the book on Sheetmusic.com and have purchased a copy.  They say it will ship in 4-6 weeks. I'm not sure why it takes so long, but I'm not complaining.  

Sean

------------------------------
Sean Stafford
Endicott NY
607-239-4643
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-03-2019 18:40
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

Mr. Stafford, I was unaware the Mathias book was out of print. The website sheetmusic.com claims to have one.

Mr. Page, I understand your frustration. You are one of the members of our Organization for whom I have the highest regard . But during the time that Steinway was using the 23 mm spec the string heights and capstan placement were so widely variable as to make touch depth consistency from one piano to the next virtually impossible. In addition on those parts the knuckle was kinda sorta more or less 16 mm from the center pin depending on how recently the machinery had been tested for accuracy. From this level of tomfoolery the New York Improved action was born depending on the dedication of a small group of people over nearly two decades. When it was introduced in 1993 it was orders of magnitude better than what came before. The parts as they exist today are that much better than the parts were when first introduced in 1993. Steinway & Sons does a lot of things I disagree with. That they are making the best wood and felt action parts currently available on planet Earth isn't one of them..

Please forgive any spelling or punctuation errors in this message as I'm having to thumb it out on my phone since the reply function still doesn't work on my desktop.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL

Original Message:
Sent: 10-02-2019 21:11
From: Sean Stafford
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

Great information, thanks Karl!  I've purchased the books referenced in your reply. There was one that I couldn't find. The Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias was not available in any of the locations I checked.

If you know of a source for this I would be interested in purchasing it.

Thanks!

Sean

------------------------------
Sean Stafford
Endicott NY
607-239-4643

Original Message:
Sent: 10-01-2019 12:37
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: Steinway Basics reply

This post is started as a new thread because I can't reply to Mr.Stafford's thread. Other sources in your original thread made some assertions regarding parts and materials that are not consistent with current production.

New York Improved Shanks and Current Hamburg Shanks both have the centerpin 24 mm from the flange hole center. The Hamburg flange has a larger hole (6mm).
Hamburg Steinway uses Maple shipped from New York in their rims and has since the '90s. Steinway New York does not disclose their hammer felt supplier but is willing to say that they have a supplier other than Bacon. New York Improved action parts are made in the New York factory at 1 Steinway Place. The New York polished ebony pianos are finished in Polyester. The case arms as of this year are (unfortunately IMHO) identical in both New York and Hamburg.

To your request for suggested reading:

Steinway Service Manual by Max Mathias
006856 ( NY parts department number)
WORLDWIDE TECHNICAL REFERENCE GUIDE (ON MEMORY STICK ONLY)
006888 ( NY parts dept number )
BOOK- THE OFFICIAL GUIDE TO STEINWAY PIANOS, R. KEHL & D. KIRKLAND
The Steinway Saga by D.W. Fostle
Steinway by Ronald Ratcliffe.

Kudos on looking to learn more.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------