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Selling a piano tuning business

  • 1.  Selling a piano tuning business

    Posted 11-09-2020 08:35
    Hello esteemed colleagues,

    I retired just a few days ago after a 38 year career in the business.  Originally I thought I would be able to sell my business to a younger person, but it took almost two years to find someone that would assume my client base for free..There is a dearth of qualified technicians in Canada and the sole source of trainees (Univ. of Western Ontario) has dropped the program.  My successor is a graduate of that program from a few years ago. I have been happy to give him my customer files and personally call or text my better clients to introduce.him. I would have hated to leave my loyal piano owners without someone to care for their instruments.  

    I want to thank the pianotech community for all the interesting and informative discussions over the years.  A special tip of the hat to Susan Kline. Your approach to the business and life in general has been inspiring.  A number of your suggestions found their way into my bag of tricks.  

    Farewell,

    Brian Johnston
    Johnston Piano Services
    Nova Scotia, Canada.




  • 2.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-09-2020 13:14
    Brain

    Congratulations on your retirement and finding some to take on your clientele. 

    As you might have read, I have been trying to retire for the past 15 months. What I thought would be an an easy process to find someone to take over, it's been rather difficult and stressful path. But, as you have done, I don't want to just let my customers fall by the wayside. I am also concerned that my customers are well taken care of when I leave. 

    Good luck in your retirement.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-10-2020 10:18
    Wow, that is stunning. Does this mean that piano businesses might end up
    being something like those beautiful old pianos? The owners think they
    are precious but they actually have no real value in dollars. Of course, I
    know my business has real value - I???m making a living after all. But a
    thing is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

    So thank you Brian for your story. Perhaps I won???t have the same
    difficulty in 5 or 10 years when I try to sell my own business, but the
    fact is I have had several apprentices over the years and none of them
    have stuck with it. As of now I will plan to do more of a sales job - tell
    any young person Who might be interested that it???s a great career for the
    right person and it pays well. I love the flexibility, my customers are
    very pleasant people, and I get to do what I???m good at. Surely that would
    appeal to some young person! But it may take years to find one and to
    train him or her.




  • 4.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-10-2020 15:32
    There are several problems with selling this type of business:

    1) The training...most younger people do not want (or are incapable of) to put forth the time and effort to learn the skills needed for success in this business. They generally want to train quickly and start making serious money quickly.

    2) Most piano technicians (not all, but a high %) do not treat the business AS a business, and therefore have little or no money in the bank so as to be able to buy an existing business.

    3) A newbie fresh out of PT school, may have some skills, but definitely has no money to buy an existing business.

    4) Even if one can/does buy an existing business there is NO guarantee that it will last since the clientele have no requirement to stay with the new person. They have to LIKE the new person. Element of risk.

    5) Very often our type of business is reliant on our relationships with the clients (related to 4 above). Unless the seller makes a concerted and effective effort to support the new attending tech, things can fall apart quickly. Again element of risk. 

    6) A buyer has to have a strong reason to move to the area where the business is being sold. This requires more capital (which techs tend not to have at their disposal).

    7) Piano technicians in general (NOT ALL THOUGH) tend to be pretty "cheap", and not inclined to pay for something if they think they can devise a way to get it for little or nothing. 

    8)  It is not uncommon for a selling tech to have difficulty "letting go". If they can't let it go (and they are not dead yet) things can deteriorate quickly. 

    These are just some observations, though they are also made from experience.  These are just some reasons why it is difficult (but not impossible) to sell our type of business. 


    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Posted 11-10-2020 16:55
    Peter.. right on!  or write on.!  That's why in a similar thread from Willem in Hawaii I posted my 2 cents and as an update  the check for last  months tuning referrals  arrived today😊,  but you itemized   the realty of all the scenarios succinctly  , hey each to their own....Martin.
    www.snowpianos.com

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    Martin Snow
    South Burlington VT
    617-543-1030
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  • 6.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Posted 11-10-2020 19:12
    Not to mention buying an in-home service business during a pandemic means laying out cash up front,  and then sitting on one's hands and one's new found debt until things become more normal, at some yet-to-be determined time...a lit of ifs and waiting there.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 7.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-10-2020 20:05
    That's not the case here in Hawaii. I've been busier than ever for the past 8 months.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 8.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-10-2020 20:25
    Peter, you make some good points but there are several that are not correct when it comes to buying/selling a business.

    1. Training, This has nothing to do with selling a business. New technicians need training, whether they buy a business or start out trying to make it on their own. 

    2. Business.  Again, that has nothing to do with this subject. There are new techs who have a very good understanding of business, and there are old farts who have struggled all their lives because they don't know how to run a business. 

    3. Money to buy a new business.  There are many different ways a business can be bought or sold. In St. Louis I sold my business to one of my employees who had no money and bad credit. But we worked out a mutual agreement. 

    4. Staying with the new owner of the business. You're right in that there is no guarantee customers will stay with the new owner of the business, but as I've been telling my customers I'm selling, most of them want a recommendation. When I bought the business of the tuner who died, most of them went with me because the widow recommend me. It's the recommendation that made the difference. 
     
    5. Element of risk. What will make a big difference is the "system" in place. The system is the computer program, the advertising, the long tern relationships with customers, the vendors and subcontractors that the seller has. Basically the support system. 

    6. That's one point you make that is true. I thought a lot of tuners looking to buy a business would jump at a chance to work in paradise. That is probably why Brian had such a hard time finding someone. Nova Scotia is not exactly a mecca for tourist or retirees. 

    7. Yes, we are tight with our money. But we will pay for something it's worth it. 

    8. Part of the agreement of selling a business is the "non-compete" clause. The seller has to agree not to compete with the new owner for a certain period of time, and in the same general area. In my case, we're moving 8000 miles away, for good.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 9.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-10-2020 22:02
    Wim, 

    Yes, but of course in general I was speaking in generalities. It is historically difficult (not impossible though) to sell a piano service business (and probably getting more so).

    In your case though you're just looking for one person who has always wanted to move to Hawaii. If that was the case it would be a no brainer to buy your business. Short of that though it's a HUGE transition. Hopefully you will be able to find someone qualified. 

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-10-2020 22:57
    Isaac Sadigursky has long preached that selling a business is one thing, but buying one is not a good investment. As many of us know, one of the reasons we keep a given customer, I mean beyond providing good service, is connecting with that person. Building a rapport, or friendship, so that the customer wants YOU to service their piano. Isaac suggests that any given customer who is forced to change tuners because their favorite is retiring is likely going to treat the previous tuners recommendation with hesitation. There is no way for the replacement tuner to provide the same service as the old tuner, and the rapport and friendship does not yet exist. The new tuner may "own" the new customer, but the customer is not invested in that change. 

    Isaac and I did an experiment about 10 plus years ago. He had a number of customers out near where I live, which even on a good day is a good 45 minute drive for him, and he wanted to cut down on his driving due to LA traffic. He was offering to give me those customers, no charge, but he understood that the customer was under no obligation to respond to any first contact I might attempt. Therefore, to encourage the potential new relationship, the two of us composed a personalized introductory letter, that we both signed and provided both our contact information, and which was mailed out to each customer. (Email was not yet a viable option.) About 200 in total. Most did not respond at all and just kept doing business as usual with Isaac. Of those that did respond, every single one of them said that, to paraphrase, they would pay extra for him to make the trip until he died or could no longer do the job at all. He was unable to give these customers to me because he had developed that rapport and friendship with them, and they wanted to be able to make the decision on a replacement tuner themselves. In the end, after several months of work, I wound up with two new customers out of 200 mailings. Isaac has used this experiment in his conference and convention classes as an example of why it's OK to try and sell a tuning business but it's not a good idea to "buy" one. Especially if the buyer has to relocate in order to take over. The customer has no loyalty to the new owner, and the new owner, if relocating and not an aspiring young tech just starting out, would be basically starting over.

    Since then, however, I have made deals with several local tuners that have moved out of the area. The agreement is that they will refer a customer to me and if/when I do the first tuning I am to pay that tuner a small percentage of my tuning fee as a thank you for the new customer. After that all billing is to me. In other words, I am paying for the privilege of getting first crack at making a good first impression on a new customer in the hope they will like me, and my work, enough to hire me again. Those tuners, and I, have decided that this provides the customer with a recommendation from a tuner they trust, and the opportunity to make the choice. It also provides a fair monetary exchange between both tuners for the transfer of "ownership" for any given customer. 

    OK, I'm through playing devil's advocate, and I apologize for the negative viewpoint. I could very likely be in a minority. So, if there are any techs out there that have purchased a tuning business, and made it work, I think it would be extremely valuable to all of us for you to share your experience. Please. This subject comes up frequently and curious minds want to know.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 11.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-10-2020 23:45
    First, for what it's worth, I'll be giving a class on this subject at the convention in Orlando. I don't have a ton of experience, but I've sold one business, bought another, and am in the process of selling a second one. (hopefully before the convention). I've also relied on the advice of my son, who is not only a CPA, but is also a "mergers and acquisition"  specialist. He deals mostly in business worth $5M - $60M, but the basic principles are still the same. Some of the information I'm sharing is what I will present in the class. 

    As Geoff said, we need more information about this subject. The one thing I've observed about some of the tuners who have retired and/or moved who sold their business is that most of the time the sale price of their businesses was grossly undervalued. One of the things that I hope will be learned from this exchange of information, and from my class this summer, is that we, collectively, put more value on our businesses. I've seen businesses being sold for $3000 - $5000, which, in my opinion, is way to low for a full time piano service business that the tuner developed over 40  or 50 years. (This is for the business itself, of course, not the house or shop).  If done right, business should be selling in the $20,000-$60,000 range. 

    The most important value of a business is not the list of customers. The most important value of a business is the "system". The system, as I said before, is the way the business is organized. How the customers are organized, how they are notified for their next tuning, the method of keeping track of income and expenses, the contact information of the subcontractors.  The  actual value is based on the total income generated, but the "system" is used as a multiplier of that figure.  

    As an example, when I bought the business here in Hawaii 13 years ago, I literally got a shoe box full of 3 x 5 cards with the name and address of each customer, the brand of the piano and tuning dates. Although he did pre-schedule customers, it was on a paper calendar, and his wife called the customer the night before. I bought the shoe box for $3K, but my wife and I spent a week typing 1000 names, address, etc in the computer.  One thing that slowed us down is that I had to look up the zip code of each customer. If this tuner had kept his customer file in a computer and had a better way of contacting them, I would have paid a lot more.  

    For those of you who are thinking about retiring, even if it's still 8 or 10 years away, the time to start planning for this event is now. Most business owners are forced to walk away from their years of hard work is because they didn't plan far enough ahead to transfer their business to the next generation. 

    While I would like everyone to attend my class, I'll be glad to answer any questions anyone has who is getting ready to start the process. 


    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-11-2020 04:03

    I once purchased a small list from a tuner who was moving out of state.  It was a small price ($500) but I cant recall any customers that went with me after all my contacting.

    Another older tuner quit his long time business and began referring all clients to me (no charge);  I believe I got less than a dozen customers.

    My brother-in-law once bought a successful business but it was a near complete loss.  It turned out that the business was the owner who was very good at building client relationships, something that my otherwise successful brother-in-law couldn't do.

    A joke I like to make is that I have 2500 15 minute friends.  How can someone purchase a friend?



    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-11-2020 04:07
    Blake

    This is an example of why a list of name has almost no value unless the names come with a system.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Posted 11-11-2020 09:14
    i agree with Wim that a system is a valuable component in any business.  In my case I kept my files on iCloud as Contacts and listed names, addresses, contact numbers, piano details, tuning dates and invoice amounts along with details of children's or pets names.  All this was given to my successor.  If he doesn't use it to full advantage that will be his problem.  I personally phoned or texted each customer to introduce him and advise them to phone him right away to make contact and tell him when they required a visit.  So far, quite a number have phoned him and set up appointments.  It should be a win for all concerned.  I certainly didn't want some of the ever present "tooners" fill the vacancy left by my retirement.  Most of the better technicians in Nova Scotia will soon retire or expire!  I am heading for 71 and that is the median age of most of my colleague here.  

    Incidentally, Nova Scotia has become a mecca for retirees!  A laid back lifestyle, moderate climate without much in the way of climate disasters and affordable housing has been bringing folk from other places where housing prices have escalated to record highs.  Tourism is a big part of the economy in normal years, but I can't see that being a factor in the tuning industry.

    Best wishes to Wim and all the others contemplating retirement in the future.  May you be able to extract some value from the businesses you have so carefully built over the years and find a buyer.

    Cheers,

    Brian Johnston
    Johnston Piano Services

    ------------------------------
    Brian Johnston
    Partner
    Truro NS
    902-305-0591
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-11-2020 11:52

    Wim, Brian, Peter, Geoff and all the others –

     

    Thank you for your thoughts on this subject.  All your comments have helped me formulate a plan to sell my business.

     

    I think that Wim's comment is very valuable - about how it's not just the list of customers but the system that comprises the value of the business.  I honestly don't have much of a system, except when I schedule a large number of pianos for a single church organization twice a year.  But I do have a very positive relationship with many customers, and many of them know each other, go to the same church, etc.  So while I don't much of a system, but I am part of a loose web of musicians, teachers, and just plain music lovers, which is a thing in itself that has value.

     

    We all know how personal this business is.  Geoff and maybe others pointed out that for many of our customers we are their "tuner for life."  We don't become someone's tuner for life on a recommendation by someone else.  We get to that point by visiting someone several times, providing good service and making a personal connection.  The experiment that Isaac and Geoff did with the letters of recommendation and how it flopped is a valuable bit of information, because it tells me I have to go a step beyond. 

     

    So if I end up "selling" my business to a young person I'm also training, I could personally introduce her to my customers.  (It is in fact likely to be a young woman.)  Many of my customers are friendly and accommodating people, and I'll ask a select number of them if it's OK for my apprentice to accompany me and practice tuning (and repair) for a while during my visit.  I am absolutely sure that most of them would say yes.  This might be paid instruction time for me (not the whole tuning visit, maybe just ½ hour), and it would be valuable for my apprentice because she would see how I personally interact with customers and tune and do repairs on a variety of instruments.  For the next visit, I would contact the customer and ask them if it would be alright for my apprentice to do the tuning instead.  I would guarantee the quality of the tuning and repair and would visit to correct it if it wasn't done totally right. 

     

    For any referral that involves extensive contact by me, whether in person or by phone call, I would collect 50% of the fee.  In this way I am providing high value to my apprentice by making a thorough, personal introduction, and she is making money job by job instead of paying a large sum up front. 

     

    This piecemeal approach has the advantage of being flexible.  We could experiment with the approach instead of having everything worked out in advance.  Maybe just a phone call would do.  Perhaps even with this kind of introduction, she doesn't end up acquiring many of my customers, then she is free to approach it whatever way she likes.  I'm sure we would learn how to tweak it a number of ways.

     

    And as soon as I get an apprentice who is likely to stay in my service area, I will start talking her up to my customers.  How she is a wonderful, smart, hard-working young lady who is coming along in her training, and I'd be happy to refer her to you when I retire.

     

    So this of course is a lot more work than just selling a business to someone who puts in a bid on it, but it seems to have a much better prospect of working, and it is fair to both buyer and seller.  And perhaps best of all, it would allow me to retire gradually, which I would much prefer to quitting all at once.  I look forward to a time when I won't have to work much, but if I didn't work at all I think I would miss it.

     

    This plan depends of course on finding an apprentice who is in the area and wants to stay here.  Wish me luck.  One of my customers is a piano teacher, and her 14 year old daughter is very interested.  That's very young of course, and there's no way to know if she will still want to do this a few years down the road.  I once had her tune a unison and was amazed at how quickly she got it to within about 1 cent.

     

    If I end up handing off my business to someone who is fully trained, a pared-down version of the above should work, the most important part being the personal introduction. 






  • 16.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-11-2020 13:22
    Loren

    I don't know what your time frame is for retiring, but I would encourage you to start using a system like Gazelle to keep track of your customers and schedule appointments. And one of the most important aspects of this program is the ability to pre-schedule your customers. I developed my own pre-scheduling system which I rely on to keep my schedule strong. I average about 10 pre-scheduled appointments a week, which is almost half the number of appointments I need. That alone will give the buyer of my business a great head start in establishing him/herself as a tuner in my area. 

    Being able to tune a piano properly and having technical knowledge is important, but if there are no customers, it won't make any difference. As I've been telling my customers my plans to retire, I assure them that the new owner of my business will notify them about the next appointment, as I have been doing. I explain that the new owner won't have the 45 years of experience I, but will know what he/she is doing. Then I close by telling them that whoever I get, no one will be as good looking as I am.  (big grin).

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Selling a piano tuning business

    Posted 11-11-2020 12:31
    I'm intrigued at your certainty of selling your business to a "her" so it would appear that you have someone very much lined up.

    But being on an island flung into the middle of the sea if you haven't got anyone lined up, it might be a matter of training up someone just to do tickover maintenance on the island. In another realm of organ building, the history of Robert Buhagiar in Malta is really interesting and the organs he has built and maintains are beginning to be an international resource of instruments. Such is the power of enthusiasm inspired in one individual.

    Personally I learned enough to set me going by watching our family piano tuner as a child - I'd watch, listen and pick up tips, and so when I moved out of his area and then a piano tuner more locally was hard to find and expensive, I started learning the hard way doing it myself in 1983 and not looking back. More recently over the past decade being at Michael Gamble's right hand in working on harpsichords and historic pianos brought practical understandings to another echelon.

    More recently going around tuning unequal temperament which their local tuners abhor, one or two pianists for whom I tune and in frustration at other tuners not being willing or able to tune in my way are expressing interest in learning from me. (Note for any tuners in UK or France - I'm looking for people to be able to maintain instruments as liked by their pianist owners tuned as I do. And there may be commercial prospects in being part of the UTI - Unequal Tuners' Initiative - or whatever we might call it.)

    This is where on the island you might find an interested pianist or two who'd like to learn from you so as to keep pianos alive, rather than approaching the problem as a business to sell. But of course if you can sell it, whoopee! 

    Best wishes

    David P
    --
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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594