Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

Any tips for cleaning this?

  • 1.  Any tips for cleaning this?

    Posted 05-23-2020 14:12
    This will be my first real piano tuning customer (not just practicing at home). I'd like to impress them by going above and beyond just tuning. Is there a good way to clean these ugly stains under the strings and around tuning pins?

    ------------------------------
    Brian Graves
    Pflugerville TX
    512-669-0400
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-23-2020 15:25
    Hi Brian

    There are tools available to get under the strings. You can use Simply Green mixed with water as a cleaning agent to clean off the area by the pins the best you can.  It looks like the "dirt" on the plate might be rust, which you can't clean off. 

    I understand you wanting to impress the customer and do a good job. But just because you don't have much experience cleaning the piano, which hopefully you'll be able to do, don't do it for nothing. Make sure charge extra.  But don't just do the work, and then hand her a bill. Tell her what you want to do, how much it will cost, and then get her permission to do the work. You don't want to do the work, and then not get paid. And who knows, maybe she doesn't want to have the piano cleaned.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-23-2020 16:06
    I'm going to add 2 things: 1) When it comes to dirt near a decal on the soundboard, BE VERY CAREFUL!!!  Unless someone else has expertise in this area and can wisely advise you,  ​DO NOT do more than dust anywhere close to the decal. (I can tell you stories, fortunately not caused by me.)   2) I will dust the soundboard and around the pins etc. and clean the keys as part of my service call fee, but take what Wim said to heart because what you do now will set a precedent. Whatever you do for free now will not only be expected for free in the future, but will be expected by others for free as word of mouth gets you more business. Make sure you set your standards, NOW.

    ------------------------------
    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-23-2020 18:49
    Brian,

    Wim and Maggie make a good point. Don't go cheap. Your bottom line will be better for it and you're more likely to spend whatever time it takes to do the job right. Charging like a professional means your work should meet professional standards which is also good for your professional development. You may not have very many customers to start out, but you have more time to devote to the work. That means you'll be making less money per hour, but you'll be learning on the job. Experienced technicians can work faster so they make more per hour for the same work, and that's as it should be. And, going cheap leads to bad attitudes like, "Oh, well. I didn't do that great today, but they got off cheap." That's not the way to do business. 

    The other factor is that you can suddenly find yourself in over your head. It's good you're getting involved with the professional community and asking questions. You need to find out about the pitfalls. For example, you might have just read the chapter on regulation and noticed that a customer's piano had too much lost motion. You decide you could really help a customer by taking a little time to turn some capstans. That could open up a whole can of worms. And if you did the work without consulting first, you'd really be sweating it. 

    Study. Learn. Ask questions. Most outsiders and beginners vastly underestimate how difficult and multifaceted piano work is. 

    Richard West









  • 5.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-23-2020 19:49

    Good points, Richard. This reminds me of a bit of beginner's luck I had early in my career. I was tuning for a very fussy lady who had previously prided herself on having someone come to Stockton from San Francisco to tune her Steinway grand. Her nose was in the air, you could practically hear her sniff. I tuned the piano, checked the pedals, and discovered that the sostenuto wasn't adjusted right so it wasn't working. I pointed this out, asked if I could adjust it, got permission, and managed to move the rail close enough to the tabs that it would work. This was very gratifying. Her expert brought in from out of town hadn't fixed (or maybe even noticed it) this but I, the young beginning local yokel, had.

    It was only after tackling some other Steinways with sostenuto problems that I realized how IMMENSELY lucky I had been! Any task other than moving the rail horizontally to the right distance from the tabs would have left me sunk without a trace. And I didn't have the Steinway gauge. I didn't even know it existed.






  • 6.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-23-2020 19:39

    If you end up getting approval to clean the soundboard, be aware that if you remove the action you can reach the highest section of the soundboard from in front and underneath, and use a rag or a shop towel with some kind of cleaning solution on it. The rest of the soundboard you'll need to clean in more conventional ways. I believe that Bill Spurlock licensed Pianotek to sell some of his tools when he retired, including his soundboard cleaning tools. A lot can be done by working a barely damp shop towel under the strings at a break, and then very carefully moving it around through the strings, using something thin, avoiding scraping the board. The natural choice would be a thin screwdriver, but the safer choice would be one of Bill's soundboard cleaning tools, which has a thin brass piece on the end covered with action cloth, all on a brass rod. This can be pushed between the strings. The bass area can be reached from in front and from the tail end. If you have help, it might be worth removing the lid for better access.






  • 7.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-23-2020 22:07
    A couple of other tips in addition to the excellent advice above. If you're going to try to get stains off of the plate, check your cleaning solution on some hidden part of the plate first to make sure it won't damage or remove the bronze finish. damhik
    I have accumulated a variety of brushes to get under strings in the front and rear, The long bristled, 2.5", automotive brushes are good for getting down past the tuning pins. I did a lot of searching on eBay and found some auto detailing brushes and gun cleaning brushes of various sizes and stiffness that I keep in my sound board cleaning kit for those areas.
    I highly recommend removing the lid (by taking out the hinge pins) prior to starting as a good deal of access is from that side of the piano. An hour and a half to 2 hours is not too long for this job. You want to have the right tools beforehand. I have a Metro Datavac that is quite small (15"x7") and powerful, fits in a small gym bag along with my brushes, cloths, liquids, and sound board cleaning tools. https://metrovac.com/collections/electronics-it/products/datavac-pro-series-micro-cleaning-tools-mdv-1ba?variant=19061593342025#tab-description

    Note: How I remove hinge pins;
    If they are L shape, grab the pin with a pair of pliers and tap out by hitting the pliers.
    If they are straight with some sort of knob at one end, tap out from the other end using a drift punch or nail set, then grab the pin next to the knob with pliers, probably needle nose and tap out by hitting the pliers. I carry a very small 2 oz. jewelers hammer for the tapping. (do all this with the lid closed) To get the pins back in, use the pliers/drift punch and hammer if necessary. Everything is done with an eye to avoiding the finish at all costs. You will need help getting the lid off and on, the piano's owner can help on smaller grands.

    On your piano in the pics, those stains on the sound board are not going to come off easily. The customer needs to know in advance that while you can improve the condition a lot, it's not going to be like new. That ship sailed long ago.

    ------------------------------
    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Posted 05-24-2020 06:59
    Cleaning the tuning pin field will take at least 3 hours. You'll need White Scotch Brite cut into small squares (1" or less) to break up the bonded dust. Small cloth squares to blot up and dry the surface. I use a Simple green dilute solution. Tweezers (self clamping) to scrub between pins, a pallet knife to push the squares across underneath the non speaking length (section between tuning pins and counter bearing bars).  Add another two hours to clean the board and plate.  The process will probably need to be repeated until the area is clean (cloth remains clean). Figure 3 passes. An air compressor will help push away moisture left in the hitch pin area.   It's big job.  I only do it on spec pianos.

    To dust between the strings, I use an acid brush. I prepare it by applying some Accelerator to the bristle heel and run CA Glue down from the open end of the handle, this prevents the bristles from falling out. Then quickly place the handle in a vice to flatten the handle and heel before the CA sets, this leaves a portion of the end of the handle round to grasp. It fits between the strings to dislodge dust. Just be careful not to apply pressure and scratch the finish. It also is a great tool for dusting the guide rail between the damper heads (big balls of dust will come out).  Also between the bass strings to dust the tenor string frame section.

    A cheapie 1" paint brush will dust the tuning pin field. Place tape around the metal sleeve to protect the finish from scratches.

    Simply dusting the tuning pin field, string frame and sounding board will take 45 minutes.  This will need to be done before the deep cleaning.

    Be very careful not to scratch the fiinish !   I can't stress this enough.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-24-2020 07:29
    When I started out I used that soundboard steel that Schaff sells, and still have it. But years ago I switched to using some long pieces of vinyl siding I found in our yard when we were having windows put in. They work great. Also, medium gauge knitting needles.

    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow, RPT
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Posted 05-24-2020 13:17
    I've only ever done really basic cleaning--more like dust-bunny roundup than restoring to showroom condition.  I just use the Schaff soundboard steel and Swifters.  I tape the swifter onto the steel with masking tape so I don't lose it and also to keep from scratching the soundboard with the steel.  

    I've never had much luck cleaning around the tuning pins.  Often it's not just stuck-on dust but corrosion as well.

    In any case, it's a good idea to set customer expectations.  If you try to clean up the staining or whatever it is, the customer needs to know it may not work.  Maybe the customer would rather just leave it alone, especially if you're charging a reasonable amount for your effort.  I often let sleeping dogs lie.  In old pianos, if it plays well and sounds good, the cosmetics are not my priority.

    I have extra soundboard steels if you need one.  I'm in north Austin.

    ------------------------------
    Eric Schell
    ericschellpiano@gmail.com
    Austin TX
    512-363-6236
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-24-2020 19:24
    I don't have anything to add as far as cleaning, but your third picture seems to show something funky going on with the hammers too...

    ------------------------------
    Andrea Hackbarth
    Palmer AK
    907-435-7697
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-25-2020 02:11
    Having cleaned may pianos like this please let me inject my humble opinions:

    These look like wine stains.  You need to warn the customer that they might have eaten into the finish and wood and into the plate finish and might not come out completely.  It is important that you do not oversell.

    FIRST polish the strings.  I use a fine 3M sanding sponge.  Skotchbrite or Polita also work.  Vacuum thoroughly.

    Thoroughly clean between the tuning pins with a stiff brush and vacuum.  The stains may need Q Tips or a damp cloth with thin tweezers but it might be hopeless to some extent.

    For cleaning I use dish detergent.  Simple Green works fine.  Murphys Oil Soap I don't like.  Use a bucket of warm soapy water, damp cloth or rag and go to town with a soundboard steel, just try not scratch the soundboard.  Also elbow grease.  Lots of elbow grease.

    I like to wax afterward; its an opinion.  I use a mixture of  1/3 Howards Feed n Wax (liquefied beeswax) and 2/3 furniture oil or orange oil and apply heavily and evenly.  It will thin out and evaporate.  I wax everything else (except the tuning pin field, don't want loose pins) even the strings (see my PTJ article).

    Do this about 20 or 50 times and then come back and advise the next generation of young-uns.







    ------------------------------
    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Posted 05-25-2020 08:14
    It looks it it spent time in a restaurant or bar to be that grimy. A lot of work to remove with limited results but the longer it's there, the harder it will be to remove and show anu appreciable improvement. It might already be too late. Especially with the pitting on the string frame, probably from airborne cooking grease particles.

    Don't try to be a super hero. 

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com


  • 14.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Posted 05-25-2020 11:01
    Warning!
    This piano looks like trouble.
    It's an old G-1 with rusty strings.
    I suggest you focus on getting a stable tuning.
    There's a high chance the strings won't render across the felts.
    For this, use ProLube, applied to the understring felt, or get some of Jon Page's string lube.
    You will be exhausted just by tuning.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Any tips for cleaning this?

    Posted 05-25-2020 12:01
    Correct Ed, the strings on these older pianos do not render well. I think it has more to do with work-hardening at the bearings as I suffered with one for years. CBL helped but at least it was less bad. That restaurant that had the G series piano bought a restored Kawai KG-2 from me (vertical hitch pin retrofit).  I gave the old gray-market G piano away to a restorer.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------