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First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

  • 1.  First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Member
    Posted 10-31-2019 10:29
      |   view attached
    PTG Family, I just finished my first round of soundboard shims and bridge capping! I was excited and felt like I wanted and needed to celebrate with someone (my wife doesn't quite understand the significance :)  I picked up an old Steinway upright to practice removing a plate, shimmed soundboard cracks, and recapped the top section of the treble and bass bridges. Wow, I learned a lot!






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    Alden Jack
    Smithfield UT
    435-760-3974
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  • 2.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-31-2019 10:39
    Duly impressed! YAY! 👏

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    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
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  • 3.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-31-2019 11:22

    Way to go!

     

    I've only recapped one bridge on an old Steinway K with Roger Gable...like 20 years ago! What a learning experience :>)

     

    Paul






  • 4.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-31-2019 11:28
    Alden,
    Three cheers for getting a piano to practice on instead of using a customers piano.
    John





  • 5.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Member
    Posted 10-31-2019 12:56
    No kidding! I agree John :)

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    Alden Jack
    Smithfield UT
    435-760-3974
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  • 6.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 10-31-2019 12:20
    Congrats!
    Before you varnish, look up del Fandrich's articles on epoxy treatment of old soundboards,
    This is a good candidate, and since the soundboard is inside the case, UV protective final varnish isn't necessary.

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 7.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Member
    Posted 10-31-2019 12:56
    Thank you for the suggestion Ed!

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    Alden Jack
    Smithfield UT
    435-760-3974
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  • 8.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-01-2019 08:56
    Ed stated: "...and since the soundboard is inside the case, UV protective final varnish isn't necessary."

    I agree with the statement above, but also it hints at the suggestion that there might be an application where UV protective varnish might be beneficial. I shudder at the thought that one would ever have any plans to have a piano, grand or otherwise, sitting in direct sunshine for any significant amount of time (really, ANY amount of time)!

    Tell me it's not true!!!!!!  Please?


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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
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  • 9.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-01-2019 09:04
    Del's protocol finishes with UV protective varnish. Ask Del.

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 10.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-09-2019 19:49
    Sunlight is not the only source of UV radiation.  Fluorescent lighting is another.

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    Floyd Gadd
    Regina SK
    306-502-9103
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  • 11.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-11-2019 14:00
      |   view attached
    Floyd G. wrote: "Sunlight is not the only source of UV radiation.  Fluorescent lighting is another."

    Good golly! I'm glad I ask a question now and then. I was not aware. Good info - thanks. I'm guessing that 
    fluorescent lighting gives off way less UV than sunlight. Is that correct? Any idea on what the comparison is like? Although it might not really matter when one considers that some pianos may well sit with a lid open under fluorescent lighting every day for many years......

    I usually use a UV-protective marine varnish on my boards, so I guess I'm good. But I have to admit that I chose my varnish for how easy it is to apply and how well it turns out - not because it is UV resistant. I guess I'll have to ad UV resistance to my list of reason to use it! Thanks.


    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-11-2019 15:46
    I understood - perhaps wrongly - that the UV protection was for the epoxy.

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 13.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-02-2019 00:57
    I sure hope you dried the board and the shims pretty good to take advantage of any hygroscopic movement you could get, and to hopefully add compression back into it.  Steinways like to vibrate in the 50-60 hz range when under compression. If it is lower than that it could be an indicator of no compression. If you didn't dry the board and shims then the crack will open up again in due time.  Also, I recommend pre-stressing the maple fibers in the cap to further strengthen the hard rock maple. If you didn't use hard rock, you probably should start over. You can pre-stress the fibers by running an iron rod back and forth over the caps.
    -chris

    ------------------------------
    Troubles are Bubbles, and they just float away.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Knoxville, TN
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-02-2019 10:59
    Chris C. wrote:  "If you didn't use hard rock, you probably should start over. You can pre-stress the fibers by running an iron rod back and forth over the caps."

    Hard rock maple? Are you suggesting that is different from "hard maple"? I've not ever heard of prestressing maple fibers. What exactly is that? How would "running" an iron rod back and forth over the wood prestress fibers?

    "Steinways like to vibrate in the 50-60 hz range when under compression."

    That sure seems unfortunate. Most music I'm familiar with has a much wider range than that....


    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-02-2019 12:21
    Terrence, and all,
    To add to your comments; All the shimming in the world will not restore a board to the original rib/soundboard panel stresses. Boards (rib & panels) that have little to no crown will have a low natural resonating frequency which favors hammer noise, shortened sustain and reduced mid to upper-end attack.
    Roger





  • 16.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-07-2019 20:46
    Farretl said,
    Hard rock maple? Are you suggesting that is different from "hard maple"? I've not ever heard of prestressing maple fibers. What exactly is that? How would "running" an iron rod back and forth over the wood prestress fibers?

    I'm surprised a veteran woodworker would ask these questions. 

    "Steinways like to vibrate in the 50-60 hz range when under compression."
    That sure seems unfortunate. Most music I'm familiar with has a much wider range than that....

    There is a difference between a boards fundamental tapping frequency and the frequency of the notes.
    -chris






    ------------------------------
    Troubles are Bubbles, and they just float away.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Knoxville, TN
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-08-2019 19:28
    Taking an iron rod and rubbing it with pressure on the bridge top before notching is a pretty common practice to compress the top layer and minimize string indentations somewhat.  Prestressing, or precompressing the fibers (however you want to call it) does make sense and I do it routinely. 

    There is both soft maple and hard maple (sometimes called rock maple).  It has to do with the density and weight.  For example, Ronsen uses a soft maple for some of their moldings.  It's quite light in weight and machines well (which is why Ray uses it) as compared to harder maple that you might see in use, typically, on bridge caps or some other hammer moldings (Hamburg Steinway hammers, I believe, use hard maple).  Hard maple was sometimes used for key buttons or key shoes (a bad idea in my opinion) as well as for key frame inserts for new key pins (not a bad idea).  The low density of soft maple makes it inappropriate for use on bridge caps.   

    On this thread there was also discussion of shimming.  I'm not so bullish on shimming anymore (and haven't been for some time).  I prefer to use a two-part epoxy (West System) and a medium density filler or wood flour mixed in.  I'll open the crack just slightly to allow ease of application and use a mix that remains somewhat runny (Goldilocks viscosity--not to thin not too thick).  Tape off the bottom of the board and run tape as close to the edges of each side of the crack as possible on the top.  The tape also serves to raise the level at which the epoxy will level off just slightly above the plane of the SB.  Then inject the epoxy into the cracks working it in with a thin blade to penetrate the entire depth of all the areas in crack.  When cured you can sand it flush and finish as you would.  I find this method to be more efficient and stable.  I do dry the board with Dampp-Chasers first so that the board is at the equilibrium point where I intend to leave it.

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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-11-2019 13:45
    David L. wrote: "There is both soft maple and hard maple (sometimes called rock maple).  It has to do with the density and weight."

    Yes, I am aware of what you've stated. But it's actually more than that - hard, or "rock", maple is the wood from one species of maple - sugar maple. Soft maple is wood from other maple species. And what you've stated about the two types of maple is correct. However, it appeared that Chris C. was somehow differentiating between "hard" and "rock" maple - which are two commonly used terms for the same wood of the sugar maple.

    I have to admit that I had not heard of rubbing/compressing the top surface of a maple bridge. Very interesting. I'll have to give that a try. Thanks for the much more 
    informative response than others (other) have provided.

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-12-2019 00:28

    I think there are some 12 species of maple but here's an article on soft vs hard maple. 


    https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/differences-between-hard-maple-and-soft-maple/



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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-11-2019 14:04
    Chris C. wrote:  "I'm surprised a veteran woodworker would ask these questions."

    Well, apparently unlike some (one?) on this forum, I do not know everything, hence the questions. My experience has been that if one doesn't ask, one tends to learn little. But maybe that's just me.


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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-11-2019 15:51
    Terry what product is your marine varnish?  Spray or brush...pic looks nice

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 22.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-12-2019 09:06
    Hey Jim - I've been using two different products in recent years. I like them both. The first is water-based - Oxford Brushing Varnish by Target Coatings. Unfortunately, they haven't made it since around 2000 - yes, I used an 18 year old can - still worked great. It didn't level out at all - seems to me in past years it did better. However, it is super easy to sand level and polish up to a nice smooth high gloss shine. Target makes several newer coatings - I haven't tried them yet, but will. I'll probably start with the EM6000 as it features 100% burn in between coats. The other stuff I've used a lot - and the only varnish I use on my boat is Le Tonkinois Marine No.1 (good grief, I LOVE this stuff!). It is a linseed-oil-based varnish. So easy to use and very forgiving. Levels super well, nice durable high gloss. One thing I really like about it - although really doesn't have much application for pianos - is that you can recoat yearly with just a light sanding. The only thing I don't like about the linseed varnish is that is takes many hours to dry (although, of course, that is good for self-leveling). You really need a dust-free environment. I apply the linseed stuff with a good natural brush. The water-based stuff is applied with a foam brush and is so nice because it dries very quickly and any dust that does land on the finish is very easy sanded off.

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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-12-2019 09:19
    Perhaps I should have added that the picture of the entire, uninstalled, soundboard was taken after applying the water-base varnish, but before sanding to level out and polishing. I think that it went on so crudely because the can was old - maybe it lost some of its water content. Still sanding and polished up super nice though. Zero windowing - 100% burn in between coats. I like that.

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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-12-2019 19:21
    Looks great for sure. I have been happy with applying just two coats of Piano Lacquer from Mohawk. After I spray the lacquer and it cures. I use 320, then steel wool. Afterward apply a furniture polish. My thinking is to apply a very limited amount of product on the spruce to maintain the full acoustic features of the spruce. So my priorities are tonal first, beauty second. But I think the polished satin is very beautiful too. So win win.
    -chris

    ------------------------------
    Troubles are Bubbles, and they just float away.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Knoxville, TN
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: First Soundboard and Bridge Recapping!

    Posted 11-12-2019 19:58
    My grail is an off the gun finish...no rubbing. I can get there with General's Enduro precat water base lacquer. Sprayed. There trick when spraying WB on spruce is to do 2 mist coats very light, super dusty, with the pre-cat, before spraying full coats. No sanding sealers, just the finish.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------