Hi, Bill,
You wrote:
"It's "string mating" only to the extent that the hammer crown is
assumed to be square across, and hammer/string mating is more accurate.
But for me it's about making sure that the hammer's force is equally
divided between 3 strings of a tri-chord. And the way to do that is to
make sure that each string is right in lace to get its full share of
that force. Synchronicity."
I'm not sure that Jung would agree with this use of the term. His most
thorough treatment of this subject is in Vol. 8 of the Collected Works,
Bollingen Series XX:) The same explication is in the separately published:
Synchronicity: An Acausal Connecting Principle,
Routledge and Kegan Paul (published 1972). ISBN 978-0-7100-7397-6.
In that volume, I think you'll find Jung's most concise description of
synchronicity on or around p.44 or so.
If you don't want to wade through Jung's own discussion, there's
another, more accessible discussion in:
Tarnas, Richard (2006) Cosmos and Psyche
New York: Penguin Group ISBN 978-0-670-03292-1.
The relevant parts in that reference (which is otherwise highly
recommended) is on/around page 50.
If you mean something like "simultaneity", then the description makes
more sense.
Kind regards.
Horace
On 8/12/2021 7:29 PM, William Ballard via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> David Love went:??
>
> "Surprising. String leveling and hammer mating are critical IMO. I suppose if the hammer is mushy enough it might matter less but I'm not even convinced of that."
>
> It's about how close to simultaneously in time, the 3 strings hit. If they don't hit simultaneously, then the last to get hit gets the least power. A tone is solid when the hammer delivers it force simultaneously to all three strings.
>
> Imagine you're the LH string and high in relationship to the C & L strings (whether or not the hammer hits them simultaneously or not). The hammer hits the C/L strings first with it power being split between these 2 strings. A couple if milliseconds later the hammer hits you, but with much less force. (The C/L/ strings may have been hit "ff" but you're hit with a "mp". As three strings combine, your string really only adds a whine to the deep resonance of the other two.)
>
> Yes, a LH string is being fed by activity on the bridge. This can be observed by 1.) spacing the hammer to miss the LH string with the UC shift, 2.) hit the note with the usual strength, and 3.)?? immediately damp the C/R strings, keeping your finger tip there. What remains is the extent to which the mechanical energy in the bridge has fed the LH string. It's small in comparison to the LH string's normal sound when being the distant last of 3 strings to get hit by the hammer.
>
> David also totally went:
> "'String leveling'" is a bit of a misnomer because the important thing is that they are on the same plane, not necessarily level to some point of reference. But it's not less important."
>
> It's "string mating" only to the extent that the hammer crown is assumed to be square across, and hammer/string mating is more accurate. But for me it's about making sure that the hammer's force is equally divided between 3 strings of a tri-chord. And the way to do that is to make sure that each string is right in lace to get its full share of that force. Synchonicity
>
> ------------------------------
> William Ballard RPT
> WBPS
> Saxtons River VT
> 802-869-9107
>
> "Our lives contain a thousand springs
> and dies if one be gone
> Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
> should keep in tune so long."
> ...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
> +++++++++++++++++++++
> ------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-12-2021 21:22
> From: David Love
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
>
> Surprising. String leveling and hammer mating are critical IMO. I suppose if the hammer is mushy enough it might matter less but I'm not even convinced of that. I use Ronsen bacon felt and am fastidious about string leveling and hammer mating. I think you should be too. "String leveling" is a bit of a misnomer because the important thing is that they are on the same plane, not necessarily level to some point of reference. But it's not less important. ??
>
>
> I understand that there's a trend to reject all traditional protocols. I think it's reached toxic proportions, honestly. ??Some protocols have less of a foundation than others and are more habits than necessities. But many have a real basis and while it's good to question the basis, throwing everything out for its own sake is a mistake.??
>
>
> ------------------------------
> David Love RPT
>
www.davidlovepianos.com <http:
www.davidlovepianos.com="">>
davidlovepianos@comcast.net <
davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
> 415 407 8320
> ------------------------------
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-12-2021 13:20
> From: William Ballard
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> Jim went:
> "I no longer bother even checking string level, and frankly don't even mate hammers. I am routinely producing the the most outstanding sounding pianos of my career. Maybe its because I use Bacons, and the bandwidth of functionality of a lighter (not ridiculously light, but light to medium on Stanwoods chart, just for comparison), softer hammer, with improved terminations, and not particularly stiff old or original boards."
>
> You probably wouldn't need to with softer hammers. The harder the hammer, the more critical it is.
>
> He also went:
> "Bill's comment about actually measuring the orientation of the string plane relative to "level", whatever the devil "level" is in a nonlinear, structure with multiple termination planes, is right on the money, in my experience."
>
> My own understanding of the situation is that it's one of "note-by-note", and specifically, on any note, 1.) a straight line of height across the 3 strings on the note, 2.) a square, straight-line across that hammer's strike point, and (here's the money shot) 3.) that these two lines are parallel. That's all that counts for me. no larger topography need apply.
>
> Nicholas went:
> "So if you come to an instrument you know you'll be doing the string leveling and damper work on, do you have a protocol for how you do string leveling? Say if the damper wires need to be polished/holes reamed, you'll level the strings while you have the dampers out?"
>
> This has nothing to do with dampers be off/on, out/in. My reading of "string level" is taken, from underneath, where the hammer hits the string. Have a real close let-off, lift the hammer to the string by the jack, and pluck the strings.
>
> Where do I set my "level"? At the hammer crown. My final reshaping (@ ~600 grit) is done with a straight-edge sitting on the hammer rail, and looking over the top of it to see that the hammer's strike point is level with that. File to correct. That's my assumed straight edge. Then, plucking strings with the hammer in contact with them, I get the 2 or 3 strings on that note (whether bichord or tri-), to make even contact (based on the pluck sound).
>
> The real kicker is, after you've mated the hammer and strings for the standard position, check it out in the UC position. Even if your UC clears the LH string, the C&R strings should still match. If not, one of those two lines aren't straight. You then have to go back to that first straight line, the hammer crown. If that's "eye-ball" straight, then the out-of-mate is the string. I wrote about this in the PTJ, what, `30 years ago.
>
> ------------------------------
> William Ballard RPT
> WBPS
> Saxtons River VT
> 802-869-9107
>
> "Our lives contain a thousand springs
> and dies if one be gone
> Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
> should keep in tune so long."
> ...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
> +++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-12-2021 10:01
> From: Jim Ialeggio
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> Bill< Another revelation: I could hear an out-of-level string at as little of 5 mills. Yes, folks, that's the thickness of a piece of plain paper
>
> Yet another piece of evidence that I am living in a different universe and reality than other techs...maybe I'm even a cyborg.
>
> ??I no longer bother even checking string level, and frankly don't even mate hammers. I am routinely producing the the most outstanding sounding pianos of my career. Maybe its because I use Bacons, and the bandwidth of functionality of a lighter (not ridiculously light, but light to medium on Stanwoods chart, just for comparison), softer hammer, with improved terminations, and not particularly stiff old or original boards. But fact is, if I spend this time leveling, it is not time well spent.. Not only can't I hear a difference, it actually degrades the tone.
>
> Bill's comment about actually measuring the orientation of the string plane relative to "level", whatever the devil "level" is in a nonlinear, structure with multiple termination planes, is right on the money, in my experience. The assumptions made as to string plane, relative to the techniques used to "perfect" that string plane, simply do not take geometric reality into account.
>
> I do lightly form the catenary bend into a slightly straighter line, but that's about all.
>
> ------------------------------
> Jim Ialeggio
> grandpianosolutions.com
> Shirley, MA
> 978 425-9026
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-12-2021 01:46
> From: Chris Chernobieff
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> Easy to get to the strike point from underneath. I demonstrate this tool in this video.
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Vp46K9Aio <https:
www.youtube.com/watch?v="23Vp46K9Aio">>
> ------------------------------
> Chernobieff Piano Restorations
> "Where Tone is Key"
> chernobieffpiano.com
>
grandpianoman@protonmail.com <
grandpianoman@protonmail.com>
> Lenoir City, TN
> 865-986-7720
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-12-2021 00:30
> From: Nicholas Litterski
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> William,
>
> So if you come to an instrument you know you'll be doing the string leveling and damper work on, do you have a protocol for how you do string leveling??? Say if the damper wires need to be polished/holes reamed, you'll level the strings while you have the dampers out?
>
> Nick
>
> ------------------------------
> Nicholas Litterski, RPT
> Austin TX
> 512-573-8920
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-11-2021 08:17
> From: William Ballard
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> It doesn't sound as though anyone has done what I did years ago: mount a dial indicator in a machinist vice to see how string heights measured across the strings (L to R) varied as you moved away from the actual strike point. A revelation. Based on this, the only string level reading I use is RIGHT AT the strike point. Anything done from the top, without removing the damper, will be good for that spot, but has nothing to do with the strike point's string level.
>
> Another revelation: I could hear an out-of-level string at as little of 5 mills. Yes, folks, that's the thickness of a piece of plain paper.
>
> ------------------------------
> William Ballard RPT
> WBPS
> Saxtons River VT
> 802-869-9107
>
> "Our lives contain a thousand springs
> and dies if one be gone
> Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
> should keep in tune so long."
> ...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
> +++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-09-2021 21:26
> From: Alan Eder
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> Geoff,
> Love those "a-ha" moments! (Live for 'em, in fact ;-).
> IDEALLY, keybed, hammer crown, and strings of a unison would all be level. However, that is not always possible where the strings are concerned, depending on variables such as the drilling of the agraffes, the machining of the plate, etc.
> HOWEVER, if the strings of a tri-chord are planar, then the crown of the hammer could also be flat (though tilted at the same angle as the strings), which would still accommodate good mating when using the shift pedal.
> Alan
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 8/9/2021 8:46:00 PM
> From: Geoff Sykes
> Subject: RE: String leveling tool
>
>> ...(and therefore be equally mated to the strings when using the shift pedal).
>
> Alan --
>
> Thank you for this aside. For years, RD was adamant on this and I never understood why it was preferable to have the piano itself level in order to level the strings. I was thinking that if the strings mated to the hammer correctly then all was well, even if there was, perhaps, a tiny angle involved. But your mentioning the shift pedal was an Aha! moment for me. If the strings are level with the hammers, but not level with the keybed then using the shift pedal would cause them to no longer level with the hammer anymore. Keybed, hammer surface and strings must all be of the same level. Thank You!
>
> ------------------------------
> Geoff Sykes, RPT
> Los Angeles CA
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-09-2021 13:51
> From: Alan Eder
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> The primary goal of string "leveling" should be to make strings of a tri-chord planar to each other, so the top of the hammer can be flat (and therefore be equally mated to the strings when using the shift pedal).
>
> It is an added bonus if the plane of unison strings is also actually "level." And, as Joel points out, that involves first leveling the piano or, more specifically, the keybed. We accomplish this with a 48" carpenter's level on the keybed. We also check if the stretcher is actually parallel to the keybed, and make a note if it is (in which case the action need not be removed for future string leveling sessions).
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------
> Alan Eder, RPT
> Herb Alpert School of Music
> California Institute of the Arts
> Valencia, CA
> 661.904.6483
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-09-2021 13:40
> From: Joel Weber
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> Been Mother Goosing all my grands for years (just make sure piano is level first).
>
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 8/9/2021 1:00:00 PM
> From: Jeffrey Gegner
> Subject: RE: String leveling tool
>
> I use the Mother Goose leveling tool to check string level.?? Mother Goose string level <http: mothergoosetools.org/product/brass-string-level/="">
>
> ------------------------------
> Jeffrey Gegner
> Tipton IN
> 765-860-5900
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 08-08-2021 17:17
> From: Rex Roseman
> Subject: String leveling tool
>
> I was watching a set of videos on piano voicing and saw them using a string leveling tool I had never seen before. I will try to add a link to the YouTube video. The tool is at 14:50. Does anyone know about this and does anyone know if it may be purchased?
>
>
https://youtu.be/IL0Toxi7tmE <https: youtu.be/il0toxi7tme="">
>
> Please let me know if the link works, I have never tried this before.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ------------------------------
> Rex Roseman
> Akron OH
> 330-289-2948
> ------------------------------
>
>
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Original Message:
Sent: 8/12/2021 10:29:00 PM
From: William Ballard
Subject: RE: String leveling tool
David Love went:
"Surprising. String leveling and hammer mating are critical IMO. I suppose if the hammer is mushy enough it might matter less but I'm not even convinced of that."
It's about how close to simultaneously in time, the 3 strings hit. If they don't hit simultaneously, then the last to get hit gets the least power. A tone is solid when the hammer delivers it force simultaneously to all three strings.
Imagine you're the LH string and high in relationship to the C & L strings (whether or not the hammer hits them simultaneously or not). The hammer hits the C/L strings first with it power being split between these 2 strings. A couple if milliseconds later the hammer hits you, but with much less force. (The C/L/ strings may have been hit "ff" but you're hit with a "mp". As three strings combine, your string really only adds a whine to the deep resonance of the other two.)
Yes, a LH string is being fed by activity on the bridge. This can be observed by 1.) spacing the hammer to miss the LH string with the UC shift, 2.) hit the note with the usual strength, and 3.) immediately damp the C/R strings, keeping your finger tip there. What remains is the extent to which the mechanical energy in the bridge has fed the LH string. It's small in comparison to the LH string's normal sound when being the distant last of 3 strings to get hit by the hammer.
David also totally went:
"'String leveling'" is a bit of a misnomer because the important thing is that they are on the same plane, not necessarily level to some point of reference. But it's not less important."
It's "string mating" only to the extent that the hammer crown is assumed to be square across, and hammer/string mating is more accurate. But for me it's about making sure that the hammer's force is equally divided between 3 strings of a tri-chord. And the way to do that is to make sure that each string is right in lace to get its full share of that force. Synchonicity
------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 08-12-2021 21:22
From: David Love
Subject: String leveling tool
Surprising. String leveling and hammer mating are critical IMO. I suppose if the hammer is mushy enough it might matter less but I'm not even convinced of that. I use Ronsen bacon felt and am fastidious about string leveling and hammer mating. I think you should be too. "String leveling" is a bit of a misnomer because the important thing is that they are on the same plane, not necessarily level to some point of reference. But it's not less important.
I understand that there's a trend to reject all traditional protocols. I think it's reached toxic proportions, honestly. Some protocols have less of a foundation than others and are more habits than necessities. But many have a real basis and while it's good to question the basis, throwing everything out for its own sake is a mistake.
------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
Original Message:
Sent: 08-12-2021 13:20
From: William Ballard
Subject: String leveling tool
Jim went:
"I no longer bother even checking string level, and frankly don't even mate hammers. I am routinely producing the the most outstanding sounding pianos of my career. Maybe its because I use Bacons, and the bandwidth of functionality of a lighter (not ridiculously light, but light to medium on Stanwoods chart, just for comparison), softer hammer, with improved terminations, and not particularly stiff old or original boards."
You probably wouldn't need to with softer hammers. The harder the hammer, the more critical it is.
He also went:
"Bill's comment about actually measuring the orientation of the string plane relative to "level", whatever the devil "level" is in a nonlinear, structure with multiple termination planes, is right on the money, in my experience."
My own understanding of the situation is that it's one of "note-by-note", and specifically, on any note, 1.) a straight line of height across the 3 strings on the note, 2.) a square, straight-line across that hammer's strike point, and (here's the money shot) 3.) that these two lines are parallel. That's all that counts for me. no larger topography need apply.
Nicholas went:
"So if you come to an instrument you know you'll be doing the string leveling and damper work on, do you have a protocol for how you do string leveling? Say if the damper wires need to be polished/holes reamed, you'll level the strings while you have the dampers out?"
This has nothing to do with dampers be off/on, out/in. My reading of "string level" is taken, from underneath, where the hammer hits the string. Have a real close let-off, lift the hammer to the string by the jack, and pluck the strings.
Where do I set my "level"? At the hammer crown. My final reshaping (@ ~600 grit) is done with a straight-edge sitting on the hammer rail, and looking over the top of it to see that the hammer's strike point is level with that. File to correct. That's my assumed straight edge. Then, plucking strings with the hammer in contact with them, I get the 2 or 3 strings on that note (whether bichord or tri-), to make even contact (based on the pluck sound).
The real kicker is, after you've mated the hammer and strings for the standard position, check it out in the UC position. Even if your UC clears the LH string, the C&R strings should still match. If not, one of those two lines aren't straight. You then have to go back to that first straight line, the hammer crown. If that's "eye-ball" straight, then the out-of-mate is the string. I wrote about this in the PTJ, what, `30 years ago.
------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
Original Message:
Sent: 08-12-2021 10:01
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: String leveling tool
Bill< Another revelation: I could hear an out-of-level string at as little of 5 mills. Yes, folks, that's the thickness of a piece of plain paper
Yet another piece of evidence that I am living in a different universe and reality than other techs...maybe I'm even a cyborg.
I no longer bother even checking string level, and frankly don't even mate hammers. I am routinely producing the the most outstanding sounding pianos of my career. Maybe its because I use Bacons, and the bandwidth of functionality of a lighter (not ridiculously light, but light to medium on Stanwoods chart, just for comparison), softer hammer, with improved terminations, and not particularly stiff old or original boards. But fact is, if I spend this time leveling, it is not time well spent.. Not only can't I hear a difference, it actually degrades the tone.
Bill's comment about actually measuring the orientation of the string plane relative to "level", whatever the devil "level" is in a nonlinear, structure with multiple termination planes, is right on the money, in my experience. The assumptions made as to string plane, relative to the techniques used to "perfect" that string plane, simply do not take geometric reality into account.
I do lightly form the catenary bend into a slightly straighter line, but that's about all.
------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
Original Message:
Sent: 08-12-2021 01:46
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: String leveling tool
Easy to get to the strike point from underneath. I demonstrate this tool in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Vp46K9Aio
------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Lenoir City, TN
865-986-7720
Original Message:
Sent: 08-12-2021 00:30
From: Nicholas Litterski
Subject: String leveling tool
William,
So if you come to an instrument you know you'll be doing the string leveling and damper work on, do you have a protocol for how you do string leveling? Say if the damper wires need to be polished/holes reamed, you'll level the strings while you have the dampers out?
Nick
------------------------------
Nicholas Litterski, RPT
Austin TX
512-573-8920
Original Message:
Sent: 08-11-2021 08:17
From: William Ballard
Subject: String leveling tool
It doesn't sound as though anyone has done what I did years ago: mount a dial indicator in a machinist vice to see how string heights measured across the strings (L to R) varied as you moved away from the actual strike point. A revelation. Based on this, the only string level reading I use is RIGHT AT the strike point. Anything done from the top, without removing the damper, will be good for that spot, but has nothing to do with the strike point's string level.
Another revelation: I could hear an out-of-level string at as little of 5 mills. Yes, folks, that's the thickness of a piece of plain paper.
------------------------------
William Ballard RPT
WBPS
Saxtons River VT
802-869-9107
"Our lives contain a thousand springs
and dies if one be gone
Strange that a harp of a thousand strings
should keep in tune so long."
...........Dr. Watts, "The Continental Harmony,1774
+++++++++++++++++++++
Original Message:
Sent: 08-09-2021 21:26
From: Alan Eder
Subject: String leveling tool
Geoff,
Love those "a-ha" moments! (Live for 'em, in fact ;-).
IDEALLY, keybed, hammer crown, and strings of a unison would all be level. However, that is not always possible where the strings are concerned, depending on variables such as the drilling of the agraffes, the machining of the plate, etc.
HOWEVER, if the strings of a tri-chord are planar, then the crown of the hammer could also be flat (though tilted at the same angle as the strings), which would still accommodate good mating when using the shift pedal.
Alan
Original Message:
Sent: 8/9/2021 8:46:00 PM
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: RE: String leveling tool
> ...(and therefore be equally mated to the strings when using the shift pedal).
Alan --
Thank you for this aside. For years, RD was adamant on this and I never understood why it was preferable to have the piano itself level in order to level the strings. I was thinking that if the strings mated to the hammer correctly then all was well, even if there was, perhaps, a tiny angle involved. But your mentioning the shift pedal was an Aha! moment for me. If the strings are level with the hammers, but not level with the keybed then using the shift pedal would cause them to no longer level with the hammer anymore. Keybed, hammer surface and strings must all be of the same level. Thank You!
------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
Original Message:
Sent: 08-09-2021 13:51
From: Alan Eder
Subject: String leveling tool
The primary goal of string "leveling" should be to make strings of a tri-chord planar to each other, so the top of the hammer can be flat (and therefore be equally mated to the strings when using the shift pedal).
It is an added bonus if the plane of unison strings is also actually "level." And, as Joel points out, that involves first leveling the piano or, more specifically, the keybed. We accomplish this with a 48" carpenter's level on the keybed. We also check if the stretcher is actually parallel to the keybed, and make a note if it is (in which case the action need not be removed for future string leveling sessions).
Alan
------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
Original Message:
Sent: 08-09-2021 13:40
From: Joel Weber
Subject: String leveling tool
Been Mother Goosing all my grands for years (just make sure piano is level first).
Original Message:
Sent: 8/9/2021 1:00:00 PM
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: RE: String leveling tool
I use the Mother Goose leveling tool to check string level. Mother Goose string level
------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900
Original Message:
Sent: 08-08-2021 17:17
From: Rex Roseman
Subject: String leveling tool
I was watching a set of videos on piano voicing and saw them using a string leveling tool I had never seen before. I will try to add a link to the YouTube video. The tool is at 14:50. Does anyone know about this and does anyone know if it may be purchased?
https://youtu.be/IL0Toxi7tmE
Please let me know if the link works, I have never tried this before.
Thank you.
------------------------------
Rex Roseman
Akron OH
330-289-2948
------------------------------
</https:></http:></grandpianoman@protonmail.com></https:></davidlovepianos@comcast.net></http:>