Hi, Harry
I'm of the "less is more" frame of mind.
1. fumes
2. you end up with something which is no longer a wood pinblock. It's a CA pinblock with wood fibers inside it. So, the feeling of the tuning pins is not at all pleasing or cooperative. They're tight, all right!
3. cost of the material, and the time to apply that much of it. Possibly protection from the fumes, ventilation equipment, and so forth.
4. oh horror! I treated 22 tuning pins, and FOUR of them are still too loose! (Or, a variation: I treated all the loose tuning pins, but when I visit the piano next year, WHAT IF SOME OF THEM ARE LOOSE AGAIN??) Adopt a calm demeanor, and have faith. If you haven't soaked the block, and some pins are still somewhat loose (or if some new ones which were loose but tunable are now too loose to hold) -- you just add a second treatment, as minimal as the first!
This is still purely an imaginary exercise, since I haven't cut apart a treated pinblock to inspect just where everything ended up, but my experiences match this theory: a pinblock with tuning pins too loose to hold pitch has many cracks and delaminations in it, hence the experience of flooding a grand plate and seeing the CA coming up around other tuning pins, which could only come from cracks and delaminations connecting tuning pins. CA's prime virtue for this problem is that it loves (LOVES, ADORES!!) following tight cracks and seams. It wicks into them several inches per second. It is never happier than when it can find a tight crack and go exploring in it. Hence the information I read from a woodworker that it is possible to glue two pieces of closely fitting wood together with CA by clamping them FIRST and then adding the water thin CA! This is a remarkable glue, and it also sets up better when the parts are a little bit wet. What other glue can you say that of? Also that it sets better when you use less of it. Other glues, if you want a stronger seam you add more. Not CA.
So, picture a seriously compromised pinblock with many cracks and delaminations. You put a modest amount of CA into the crack between the tuning pin and the plate bushing. There is often a gap there, as the tuning pin has been pulled down. The CA enters, finds fight cracks, and it's off to the races. So much leaves the immediate area that there sin't enough to line the tuning pin hole to make it tight. It's all several inches away. So, full of faith, you keep adding it to the other loose pins. It wicks away, and eventually it meets some CA from another pin. The cracks and delaminations gradually are secured so they no longer can flex. The tuning pins have some substance now supporting them. And you haven't turned the pinblock into something resembling bakelite. That first pin, which didn't firm up enough -- you just add a little bit more, it tries to rush along cracks, but the first application has sealed them fairly close to the tuning pin, so enough of the second application remains near the pin to increase the torque.
Well, it's what has happened to me. Treating many pins in a troubled area is effective. Not treating pins which are just a little loose seems to have no lasting drawbacks, since you can reach for the little bottle and give them a little bit if they need it later, even years later. You've spent a lot less time, and you haven't gassed your customer with fumes, and the feeling of the tuning pins isn't jumpy and noisy. For most notes, it still feels like metal and wood, the way we like for it to.
My take on it: I always assumed that the reason people wanted to pour ounces and ounces of CA into a pinblock (and they felt the need to tilt an upright) is because this is how we used the old glycerin and alcohol pinblock treatment. But maybe there's something else -- people just seem very frightened of not having a permanent repair. But if a dab more as needed works better than trying to be sure none of those pins will EVER dare to be loose again -- why not settle for that?
As for a small amount of CA preventing any more from reaching deep where it is needed, since so many tuning pins have sagged, leaving a crescent moon shaped hole at the top, if the pin is still loose the CA can always enter there, to go find its beloved tight cracks.
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Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
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Original Message:
Sent: 04-19-2019 14:29
From: Harry Miller
Subject: Pintite Followed by CA?
Yes and without success, but I'd still try it again. And (sorry to change the subject) as long as we're discussing CA, I too have questions.
I've used CA to tighten tuning pins on old pianos maybe a dozen times, almost always with good results. My methods have changed over the years, on the basis of different advice I've received, casually from other techs and at national conventions from well-known instructors. Still, there's some fog for me about this repair, and so hopefully some of you can enlighten me.
Firstly, there's the matter of how much glue to apply. Two well-known instructors advised soaking the area between the tuning pin and the plate until the block won't take any more glue. The justification: that once the glue sets up, it somehow seals the block from receiving additional glue that may be needed – a use-it-or-lose-it approach. Others have advised using as little glue as possible. The problem for me with the second approach is that, until the glue hardens, it's sometimes hard to know when enough is enough. So, on my last two glue treatments I soaked one day and returned on another day to tune. The problem now is fearing I'll break a tuning pin; on these last two pianos the pins were so tight that I had to put my body weight into my lever to get them free. After a loud "crack" the pins broke free and were satisfactorily tight and maneuverable. These last two pianos held their tunings very well thereafter and the customers are happy. But I'm inclined to think doing the whole procedure in one day, still soaking the block, is the better practice. Anybody ever broken or bent a tuning pin this way? Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.
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Harry Miller
RPT
Lawrence KS
785-832-2443
Original Message:
Sent: 04-18-2019 15:29
From: Joe Wiencek
Subject: Pintite Followed by CA?
Has anyone any experience doping a loose pin block with CA after it has apparently been previously doped with Pintite? Was it successful?
Thanks,
Joe Wiencek