Hello, All,
Hmmm...once again, things on this list spiral towards unknowing based on
lack of actual knowledge and/or expertise.
_IF_ the question has boiled down to whether or not a given person has
somehow violated some section of a legal code that broadly covers the
majority of the people subscribed to the list, then, the reasonable
course would be do to some actual research. To my eye, that has not
happened. Rather, we have opinion based on hearsay, backed by no
substantive understanding.
To put things in a hopefully more informed perspective, one might
quickly check Google to see what might come up. Just now, using the
following search terms:
permissible use of copyrighted material
Among other related items, this search returns links to the USCode
section relating to copyright:
17 U.S.C. ?? 107
or
U.S. Code Title 17 Copyrights ?? 107
It took less than two minutes to search and parse to find the following
link:
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107Section 107 is entitled: "Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use";
and is included here:
"Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use
of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or
phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for
purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including
multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an
infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work
in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall
include???
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is
of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the
copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of
fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above
factors."
Looking at the above; and considering that the guild prides itself on
supporting the education of people about piano technology, its hard to
see where a substantive legal theory (one that might actually find
standing in court) could be developed in a situation in which the
promulgation of material was specifically for the purpose of educating
another.
Over a fairly long period of time now, a number of list subscribers to
this (and previous) lists have freely shared a wide variety of
previously published material. Sometimes, this has included material
previously published in either print (usually via the journal), or, in
some other media. In those cases, I generally agree with Ed's assessment.
In this case, as the specific use appears to be for the purpose of
sharing specific information (that is: "teaching"), then, the use might
well fall under the portion of the opening paragraph of ??107:
"teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use)"
While a generalized EM list is not a traditional classroom, particularly
as set up under the Higher Logic system, it would most likely qualify as
"distance learning"; and would likely be covered under "fair use".
My initial concern is the assertion of copyright protection in a case in
which the validity of the assertion is not in evidence. By that, I
mean, in whom (thinking of businesses as persons...something we have to
do since Citizens United; but that's another conversation) does the
copyright for materials published in the journal actually vest? Does it
vest in the guild, or, does it vest in the original author? Or, does it
vest in both, based upon some contractural arrangement? That is, based
on the number of technicians who have written books and pamphlets that
appear to have been based on journal articles, what arrangements are
made so that the reasonable interests of all parties are reasonably
protected?
My secondary concern is that, if this kind of thinking leads to a
conception, or set of conceptions, in which the guild is effectively
perceived to be the sole source for certain kinds of knowledge,
training, vestiture ("licensing" in the sense of gaining some
pre-defined level of membership), &c, then, it's a very slippery slope
into areas of restriction of trade, which has a long history of not
going very well for would-be restrictors.
Ed, I am very glad to see that you have referred this to the moderators.
With luck, they, in turn, will contact whoever acts as counsel for the
guild; and that person will be able to supply more clarity. In the
meantime, this is all speculation which doesn't seem to be doing anyone
much good.
Kind regards.
Horace
(B.S. Law)
On 11/24/2019 11:00 AM, Ed Sutton via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
> Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
>
> Mr. Roeder,
> Benjamin Sanchez has parsed the legal side better than I could have.
> My concern was that the Journal 30 year DVD is sold to the public at a much higher price than to members, the intention being to make it more economical to join than to purchase the disc.
> We have the situation that people who are not PTG members, and who are, I stress, welcome to participate in these conversations, at times go a rather long way in seeking free advice from our members, and some of our members are eager to offer that advice. As long as this is the freely given personal advice, that is fine, and often to the benefit of all of us.
> My concern was the situation where a member is giving out extensive, copyrighted PTG material.
> I don't claim to be the authority about this, but I think it needs to be examined by appropriate people in PTG, so I marked the messages for moderation and wrote a message explaining why, now in even more detail!
>
> ------------------------------
> Ed Sutton
>
ed440@me.com> (980) 254-7413
> ------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-24-2019 11:48
> From: Karl Roeder
> Subject: Is this Soundboard shot?
>
> Mr. Sutton,
> Just curious how you'd feel about my sharing the information found on the discs with a non-member colleague in my shop? Is the information itself embargoed or just the manner of sharing??? Having bought the album can I play the music for others in a not for profit setting or must I first determine that all the listeners are also owners of the album??? Does keeping the information behind a paywall make membership more appealing or does it foster ill will from the excluded thus reducing their inclination to join??? I don't claim to know the answers to the above but hope you've considered them and asked the moderators to do the same.
>
> ------------------------------
> Karl Roeder
> Pompano Beach FL
> ------------------------------
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-24-2019 04:41
> From: Ed Sutton
> Subject: Is this Soundboard shot?
>
> Susan and Sam-
> I've marked Susan's messages for moderator opinion because the material shared is a member benefit and Mr. Joud and Mr. Pinnegar are not PTG members. The non-member price for the 30 year Journal disc is quite high, as members have paid significantly for this material through their dues.
>
> ------------------------------
> Ed Sutton
>
ed440@me.com <
ed440@me.com>
> (980) 254-7413
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-23-2019 22:40
> From: Sam Lewis
> Subject: Is this Soundboard shot?
>
> Hi Ed. Regarding your comment about Del's soundboard epoxy repair. ??I've had no luck finding the article and I'm hoping you can help?
> thanks
> Sam
>
> ------------------------------
> Sam Lewis
> Sam Lewis Piano
> White Bluff TN
> 615-417-7007
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-21-2019 21:06
> From: Ed Sutton
> Subject: Is this Soundboard shot?
>
> See Del Fandrich's articles on epoxy soundboard repair in the 2002 Journal.
>
> ------------------------------
> Ed Sutton
>
ed440@me.com <
ed440@me.com>
> (980) 254-7413
>
> Original Message:
> Sent: 11-21-2019 19:05
> From: Abed Joud
> Subject: Is this Soundboard shot?
>
> Hello community,
> So, I noticed a couple cracks in the soundboard of the Anderson 125 year old piano. At this point, I am no longer sure if it's worth it to continue to restore it or not. Especially if I have to replace the soundboard. I have attached some photos of the soundboard. In some places, it appears that it's delaminating, even though it's a solid piece and not plywood. In other places, it looks like there are hairline cracks developing with the grain but the cracks are through cracks and not just on top of the board. I know the bridge caps are shot and need to at least be planed down to good wood and another piece of maple glued on top of them. What do you guys think?
>
> ------------------------------
> Abed Joud
> Computer Engineer
> Elk Grove CA
> 832-660-6502
> ------------------------------
>
>
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Original Message------
Mr. Roeder,
Benjamin Sanchez has parsed the legal side better than I could have.
My concern was that the Journal 30 year DVD is sold to the public at a much higher price than to members, the intention being to make it more economical to join than to purchase the disc.
We have the situation that people who are not PTG members, and who are, I stress, welcome to participate in these conversations, at times go a rather long way in seeking free advice from our members, and some of our members are eager to offer that advice. As long as this is the freely given personal advice, that is fine, and often to the benefit of all of us.
My concern was the situation where a member is giving out extensive, copyrighted PTG material.
I don't claim to be the authority about this, but I think it needs to be examined by appropriate people in PTG, so I marked the messages for moderation and wrote a message explaining why, now in even more detail!
------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------