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how to limit draft

  • 1.  how to limit draft

    Posted 01-14-2021 19:48
    hello All,
    i have a new church customer with a Baldwin L on a stage which has not held a tuning, so far. They have tried several tuners and today it was my turn.
    upon inspection, i noticed air blowing from a large vent in the ceiling which came on pretty much every 20 minutes. The choir director, pianist and choir member all said they had noticed it. 
    I mentioned to them to investigate if the air from the vent could be re-directed away from the stage and that we could look into covers (under-cover, string cover, normal cover).

    what are your findings about each of those covers in limiting the draft around the piano and help keeping it more stable?

    Thank you,
    Peter

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    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
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  • 2.  RE: how to limit draft

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-14-2021 21:06
    Hi Petrus:
    If you can convince them to redirect the air, I believe it will improve, somewhat. Big rooms that are not kept rigorously at temperature and humidity are notorious for wrecking your tuning efforts. String covers, floor length covers, damppchasers and humidity control systems with bottom covers are your best shot.
    Good luck.
    Paul McCloud


    Petrus Janssen:
    Hello All,
    i have a new church customer with a Baldwin L on a stage which has not held a tuning, so far. They have tried several tuners and today it was my turn.
    upon inspection, i noticed air blowing from a large vent in the ceiling which came on pretty much every 20 minutes. The choir director, pianist and choir member all said they had noticed it.
    I mentioned to them to investigate if the air from the vent could be re-directed away from the stage and that we could look into covers (under-cover, string cover, normal cover).

    what are your findings about each of those covers in limiting the draft around the piano and help keeping it more stable?

    Thank you,
    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055





  • 3.  RE: how to limit draft

    Posted 01-14-2021 23:10
    Did you happen to look if maybe the pinblock was not fitted properly?

    -chris

    ------------------------------
    Chernobieff Piano Restorations
    "Where Tone is Key"
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Lenoir City, TN
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: how to limit draft

    Posted 01-15-2021 00:47
    hello Chris,
    i actually did not, but i have encountered this situation several times before and in some cases, vents were re-directed which always helped, sometimes a cover was bought and helped but in all cases, even when nothing was done, my tunings held up better.
    Would a not properly fitted pinblock result in specific problems other than the piano going out of tune? Is the going out of tune caused by a not properly fitted pinblock different from the piano going out of tune because of draft, humidity swings or insufficient tuning technique?
    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: how to limit draft

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-14-2021 23:10
    Petrus

    The best option is to redirect the vent. Unfortunately, this will take an act from God to get the church's administration to pay to have an HVAC person to climb up to the ceiling to change the direction of the vent to keep the air from flowing on the piano. But maybe with the urging of the choir director and several choir members that can be done. 

    If the vent can't be changed, then the best option is a heavy duty piano cover. The problem with a full piano cover is that every time the piano is going to be played the cover will need to be removed. I would give it a month before the cover will be left in a corner, and never used again. 

    If this is a typical church situation, none of the above will happen, and they will be looking for another piano tuner. Not to be negative, but that's been my experience with some churches. 

    Good luck.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 6.  RE: how to limit draft

    Member
    Posted 01-15-2021 00:43
    How old is this piano and how tight are the tuning pins ?  I would monitor the environment for at least 2 weeks using a data logger and then analyzing the graphs . If the logger is on the lid under the vent you may see changes quite frequently in 24 hours . There are plastic deflectors that can be used on small vents in homes but I am not sure what might be done to a large overhead vent. Is moving the piano to another spot possible ? Undercovers are useful but not sure how much they will help from an overhead draft. Many churches do a poor job when it comes to environmental issues often cutting back on the air conditioning and heat and then putting the hvac on turbo for weekend services. such deep cycling is bad for any instruments in the church including pianos, organs, guitars, sound equipment, keyboards, furniture, rugs

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 7.  RE: how to limit draft

    Posted 01-15-2021 07:45
    hello James,
    it's a 1973 piano and the tuning pins feel nicely tight.  They are looking into having someone from the church make a deflector.
    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: how to limit draft

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-15-2021 10:02
    On this subject: I often come across homes with a floor vent near the piano, and I wondered if anyone has tried constructing covers and selling them to customers?
    I was thinking that one could visit a flooring a store, cut a few pieces of different wood common wood types for common-size grates, glue some felt along the bottom, and have them available for a reasonable price. Or unreasonable, that's up to you... 
    It's impossible to match every flooring style on the market, but maybe one could have a few, of which one would blend in acceptably. Kind of like caster cups?

    I've too often found that I will point out a fix, like a deflector, or maybe just put some books on the vent, and the customer nods but never gets around to it.
    I don't know if most grates are of similar size, but the one I measured yesterday in a newish house with this idea in mind was 5.5x13.25".

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    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: how to limit draft

    Member
    Posted 01-15-2021 17:00
    Scott, In terms of heating and air,, That is a 4" x 12" register. They measure them by the size of the opening. The register fits down into the boot that converts from round duct to square for coming through the floor or ceiling. The flange that you measured holds it from falling in.
    They lift out easy. Most have a screw on each end.
    For existing ones,, lift the register and duct tape the opening from the inside so it looks the same. If you pan it because it can be seen into,,,, use metal instead of cardboard because it is a heating system that uses air flow to create the proper temperature rise in the furnace. Less flow results in a higher temp.
    You paint the pan material black so it's not visible from the top.
    You can buy an adjustable register and shut the adjustment to off. Some air gets through.

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    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-770-4312
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  • 10.  RE: how to limit draft

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-15-2021 10:44
    Petrus,

    I've generally had good luck with the system you are proposing.  The ongoing problem with churches is: Will they fill the water trough? Will they close the lid between uses? If there is a cover, will they use it?

    A suggestion:  Take and note humidity, temperature, and pitch at A4 every time you visit this piano.  I have a card that I leave in the piano or the bench.  At least you will have some objective data when you talk about the instability. Living with the climate changes in NE Ohio, I try to get churches to get a tuning quarterly at minimum. If they do a lot of recording or have a very piano oriented service, monthly.  You can only do so much.

    Good luck,
    Stewart Freedman

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    Stewart Freedman
    Akron OH
    330-376-3373
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  • 11.  RE: how to limit draft

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-15-2021 12:40
    I have been servicing a 1983 Steinway D, (restrung, etc., about 10 years ago), and a 1988 Kawai GS-70 in a large church worship center for the last 15 years. Neither would hold tune for an acceptable length of time due to the A/C being turned off when the center wasn't being used and to the fact that on Sundays the place was packed, at least twice, with about 3000 people. Tried a thick cover that went clear to the floor and that lasted about a month before they refused to use it any more. Too hard to take on, put back on. Put in a full D/C system, which they would not maintain and which got unplugged and damaged regularly whenever the piano was moved. Finally took it out. I convinced them to leave it on the stage all the time instead of keeping it in the storage area below the stage. That helped. They were happy with my work but not happy with the piano's stability. I finally had a conversation with them about it. Education helped a lot. I finally learned that they were not willing to make any changes to the A/C system as it was too expensive to keep on for any length of time in that large a hall. Between the church music director and their bookkeepers they finally understood the situation and decided that it was ultimately less expensive to bring me in once or sometimes twice a month than it was to stabilize the environment. With Covid, and the complete loss of real people in the building, the environment has significantly stabilized and, for the time being I'm only seeing those pianos about every other month. But as soon as they're open again the situation will return. And, again, they already understand this and are ready, and eager, to have me back there on a more regular basis.

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 12.  RE: how to limit draft

    Posted 01-16-2021 08:08
    Petrus, I ran into this exact situation with a church client recently. They have a large (-ish) Samick grand up on the stage with a HUGE - I mean like 2 foot by 2 foot AC vent blowing directly onto the piano from high up on the wall. The piano was always WAY out of tune when I'd go there every six months. I told them about it and after some time, somebody from the church made a cardboard deflector to direct the air more upwards and not directly hitting the piano. The piano's stability improved DRAMATICALLY - almost to the point of it being a normal piano! So, that's what worked in this situation anyway.....

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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
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  • 13.  RE: how to limit draft

    Posted 01-16-2021 11:56
    thank you Terry,
    i presented them with the various options and will wait what is going to be decided.
    Peter

    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------