Hi Phil,
When reading these posts one should always look at them as indications of a particular person's unique biases, rather than as absolute statements.
In my case, since I, up to this point, mostly service my own rebuilds, and since my tuning technique is a smooth motion, frankly, the way I move the lever, I really can't tell the difference of tuning tip fit between a 1/0 and 2/0...really. On the other hand, again, given my body and my technique, lower torque up in the high treble is so beneficial to me, it ranks super high on my list of things worth achieving.
I don't ream, because it will be a hand fed process in an old block. My experience has been, that reaming just adds inconsistency where there may not have been inconsistency before. Sometimes reaming, for me, ends up in a real challenged occasional hole, as either the grain sucks the bit in out of my control, or as my attentioned wanders, requiring an odd-man-out oversized pin on or CA. ( By the way, sometime, new blocks, by the best of us, get occasional CA, in odd challenged holes, where the bit wandered or some such inconsistency...most of us just never mention this little tidbit).
So I prefer to accept the hole as a given, as I mentioned in my article, and "ream" using the installed pin as the reamer. Others have no problem with reaming the holes with the drill, so I only speak for my own experience. Hand reaming of the holes could also explain why others will go up from 2/0 to 3-1/2, instead of the single size 3/0 I usually get away with.
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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Original Message:
Sent: 04-18-2021 10:23
From: Phil Bondi
Subject: Tuning Pin Size - Repinning
Hi Jim.
I'm a non-starter/novice at best with this skill, but why not ream the high treble on a new block and use the same size pins across the block? I appreciate your continued contributions to the trade.
Original Message:
Sent: 4/18/2021 10:04:00 AM
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: RE: Tuning Pin Size - Repinning
I should add, after finding a pin that works up at the 88 end, try this same size pin in the low tenor. Adjust pin size overall as necessary, or use different pins in the high treble and rest of the piano. I have no qualms about using different size pins, actually. I often use 1/0 in the high treble and 2/0 in the rest of the block even on a new block. The high treble simply does not need to be the same torque as the low tenor and bass. HIgh torque in the high treble just makes them an unnecessary chore to tune.
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
Original Message:
Sent: 04-18-2021 09:08
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Tuning Pin Size - Repinning
I now experiment in the actual block, as outside the piano experimental blocks just gave me bogus info. WHat the experimental block told me, never really carried over into the real block. So I knock in a couple of bare pins (not stringing yet), in the existing block, starting at the small diameter end of things, and work my way up. Start up at 88, where torque failure is very uncommon. If the pin is really too small, back it out. The hole will still be okay if the pin was too small. Then work your way up. You later string these bare experimental pins as you would when repairing a string break in the field.
I wrote a long article on pinning to achieve tuner friendly torque in the Nov 2020 Journal. It lays out the procedure for testing pins, and how to avoid having your test pin give you misleading info.
In an existing block, I don't ream. I know others do, but I don't. Instead, I find a pin and pin height off the block that gets me to a strong 150-200 in/lb, and exercise the pins in the block after stringing to hit a comfortable target. We are doing that now in a Chinese grand which has a delignit type block. Its a bit of work, but the results are predictable, and tuner friendly.
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
Original Message:
Sent: 04-18-2021 05:29
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Tuning Pin Size - Repinning
Jim I. suggested: "...experiment...".
I do that routinely on new blocks. I'll either drill holes in a separate chunk of pinblock or sometimes in the new block in areas covered by the plate. So how would one experiment on an pinblock where the plate is not being removed. Seems to me the only way to do that would be to pound an experimental larger pin into an existing hole and see what the torque is - but if it is not the desired torque, you've altered the hole. Seems to me all one can do is take your best guess and measure torque carefully on the first few pins and either continue with same size is torque is good, or go up or down in size as needed if torque is either too high or too low. Is there an alternative I'm not seeing?
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Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
Original Message:
Sent: 04-17-2021 19:20
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Tuning Pin Size - Repinning
I always experiment first before deciding. The supply houses sell individual pins. Having said that, I have only gone up 1 size, never more than that.
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
Original Message:
Sent: 04-17-2021 16:32
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Tuning Pin Size - Repinning
I have an old upright in my shop that will be getting new bass strings. It has been decades since I last repinned an original pinblock with larger pins. I'm guessing it would be appropriate to just go up one size in this situation, but I'd sure like to hear from others that might have more experience doing this sort of thing. The original pins were 2/0 (0.282"). Tuning pin movement was smooth and torque was fairly consistent throughout the bass section with most pins in the 40 to 50 in.-lb. range and a few up to 60 in.-lbs. (measured after removing strings).
What say those in the know - go up one size to 3/0 (0.286") when I put the new strings on?
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Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
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