Pianotech

  • 1.  Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2019 05:36

    Hi folks,

    could anyone of you with experience in refinishing older pianos educate me on what kind of material, filling and coating might have been used on this Ritter piano from the mid 1920's? Practically all black pianos over here in Europe are treated with polyester nowadays.

    Logically, this would be a french polish, right? 






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    Patrick Wingren, RPT
    Jakobstad, Finland
    0035844-5288048
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  • 2.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Posted 03-26-2019 07:01
    To repair something like that I'd use a water based product: CrystaLac. Fill the edge, sand and use a sealer before applying topcoat. The crack could have gloss black laid in with a fine brush, wire/pointed stick or draftman's pen.  You could also just color it darker with a Sharpie felt pen.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 3.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-26-2019 08:27
    In my experience shellac does not deteriorate quite the way shown in the photo. It looks more like lacquer to me. Early lacquer tends to be thick and brittle, breaking off in large pieces. (I could be totally wrong here though).

    The way to find out is to start rubbing it with alcohol. If it starts to soften and dissolve, then you in fact have shellac. If not, it's something else. If it's lacquer then lacquer thinner will affect it. 

    If this is not critical you can fill cracks with CA, level, and then touch up with shellac blackened with black dye. Pad it on like French polish. Shellac is compatible with all finishes. 

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 4.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Posted 03-26-2019 08:23
    You can test the finish. There are many articles and videos online that show how.





  • 5.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2019 08:10

    Thanks, all!

    Chris, would this be articles about furniture or specifically about pianos? If you happen to have a link to recommend, I'd be grateful.​



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    Patrick Wingren, RPT
    Jakobstad, Finland
    0035844-5288048
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  • 6.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2019 12:16
    I'd be interested in some techniques for filling horrible dings and gouges while controlling color. I've been refinishing a celesta for the Newport Symphony. It's by far the most battered instrument I have ever seen, though it plays fine. I just patched a place where two layers of veneer were torn away, with some red oak I cut thin on the Shopsmith bandsaw. (The case is oak.) I got the fit right but I had a lot of trouble controlling the color. I also need to find a filler which can be colored properly but is still sturdy enough to build up a battered edge. I was using shellac stick, but the color was not right, opaque, and it will not accept stain. I think I'll need to dig it all back out again and take a new approach, but I'd prefer to know what the approach should be before I dig it out. Possibly, instead of filling each gouge on the edge, I should take a dremel sanding drum and shave a bevel on the whole edge, then build it up with something, maybe even wood. I also bought a shellac stick (for clarinets, I think) which is translucent and kind of a warm burnt sienna.

    A few photos ... I used a very fancy 3M adhesive sheet to attach the orchestra's name. The color of the patch is still a problem, and I'm tired of having to go darker and darker to take attention from it. I must say that the orchestra and conductor are giving me an incredible amount of positive feedback, but I don't think my results are nearly good enough yet. For the splintered front corner, shellac stick glued it all back together and built up the missing parts, but you can see that the color is awful and the shape not all that great either. A learning experience, but I feel that French Polish was really the way to go. For instance, I can work on the case in the Arts Center for hours with no fumes (just 190 proof ethanol and shellac flakes) and no need to worry about dust. What I could really use is some expertise about fillers, especially for edges, and coloring them. I've wondered if I should just dress down all the edges and lay on a thin oak veneer strip, then French Polish that.



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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 7.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Posted 03-27-2019 13:09
    Susan, melt two or more colors together to match the finish. Level as smooth as possible with the iron and clean the edges with a single edge razor blade. The blade can be used to scrape it level too.  For filling other things, Lake One is a great product.

    I recently blended a repair with dark garnet shellac (from flakes) and Mohawk Dark Walnut as a toner. I sprayed it on with my Turbinaire HVLP with a dialed down CFM.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 8.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-27-2019 13:17
    New ideas, thanks. I'll check out Lake One.

    I've been tinting the French Polish with aniline dye powder by J.E. Moser, which has worked very well, except that the shellac stick doesn't accept it (or course) and some of the other fillers don't accept enough of it.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 9.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Posted 03-27-2019 18:54
    I avoid having to melt anything and use the mohawk epoxy sticks and graining pencils.
    -chris

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    Troubles are Bubbles, and they just float away.
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Knoxville, TN
    865-986-7720
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  • 10.  RE: Case and finish, Ritter piano (1920's)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-17-2019 18:07

    Oh no... I think I accidentally must have hit the junk mail button on email notifications from this forum, it all got suspiciously quiet for a while. Well, there's a first time for everything :-D 

    Time to dive into the email dumpster to see what I've missed.

    Thanks for the additional information shared here.



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    Patrick Wingren, RPT
    Jakobstad, Finland
    0035844-5288048
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