Pianotech

  • 1.  Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Member
    Posted 06-07-2021 23:16
    I had a S&S Model B with a teflon action. Two of the jack toes have fallen off the two piece jack and many others are loose. i am going back in the morning to glue them all but wanted to get glue recommendation such as thin or medium CA, white woodworking glue, pvce or fish glue. I have used CA in the past for emergency repair but am thinking it is better not to use for a global repair.

    In addition I am trying to locate some extra teflon whippens to use for future repairs I do not have any of the teflon bushing repair tools or any spare teflon parts. I am sure there are many of these parts sitting gathering dust someplace and will pay a fair price for some. You can send me a private message i you wish.

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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 2.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-07-2021 23:32
    I use woodworking glue. I've been able to do it with the whips still in the action, work the loose ones out completely to apply the glue. The working time allows for repositioning. If you use CA, you best do it right the first time. Those parts are delicate. If a lot of them are loose it's likely they all are. Ran into this on S&S' from the early 70's.

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    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
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  • 3.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Posted 06-08-2021 07:26
    I just had that same issue on a '73 M. Used woodworking glue also, did just as Steven mentioned... jack came out cleanly...

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    Leslie Koltvedt
    Marietta GA
    734-657-7034
    lkpianos@gmail.com
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  • 4.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2021 00:04

    James. 


    I glued a lot of them with CA glue. But as Steve just said, you better do it right the first time. With so many loos jacks I would suggest you remove the stack and do each wippen separately.  Put just a small drop on the tail and put it in the arm. Then kick it when you know it's in there straight.  



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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 5.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Member
    Posted 06-08-2021 09:29
    Just a quick side note: if you haven't already, make sure there is not too much aftertouch and the jacks are not jamming in the windows or this will continue to be a problem.

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    Luke Taylor
    Temple City CA
    310-386-7014
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  • 6.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2021 10:52
    That's a good suggestion, Luke.
    James, unless the piano has to be up and playing immediately after you're done, I think you're better with the options OTHER than CA glue.  
    a) there's no reason for it
    b) doing 88 of them means extended exposure to blessed fumes  (note: even the 'low-odor' types make fumes, they're just heavier and hang about around your knees until you twitch and stir them up
    c) definitely NOT the thin, as it's very hard to control where any excess would go, i.e. between jack and bushing.
    d) if you're doing them 'in-place' with accelerant spray, I'd like to know about any effect on teflon bushings

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    David Skolnik [RPT]
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    917-589-2625
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  • 7.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2021 11:05
    I like to use the Coleman glue, which is extremely strong. Gluing wood together which was already glued together and failed is a problem. If it was hide glue, using more hide glue would be ok. If it was glued with tite-bond and you re-glue it, the joint is not strong because the new glue won't bond to the old very well. I agree that using ordinary CA glue is not a good option, thin especially, as David has mentioned. Also, because the joint is very tight, most of the glue will be scraped off when you assemble it.

    Paul McCloud
    San Diego


    David Skolnik
    That's a good suggestion, Luke.
    James, unless the piano has to be up and playing immediately after you're done, I think you're better with the options OTHER than CA glue.
    a) there's no reason for it
    b) doing 88 of them means extended exposure to blessed fumes (note: even the 'low-odor' types make fumes, they're just heavier and hang about around your knees until you twitch and stir them up
    c) definitely NOT the thin, as it's very hard to control where any excess would go, i.e. between jack and bushing.
    d) if you're doing them 'in-place' with accelerant spray, I'd like to know about any effect on teflon bushings

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    David Skolnik [RPT]
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    917-589-2625





  • 8.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-08-2021 10:43
    That brings up another issue in my mind, James. Too much aftertouch can force the jack shaft against its stop cushion and, sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly, break the glue joint of the tender.

    Bob Anderson, RPT
    Tucson, AZ




  • 9.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Posted 06-08-2021 11:21
    Mostly all good suggestions , many of our 130 grands  at BU were Teflon era  with this 2 piece jack toe and yellow or woodworkers  glue  worked fine, I'd really caution  against CA glue for this repair it only takes  one errant drop  to cancel out any time savings . If you treated all of them it's tricky to visually achieve that same evenness of line as the glue dries sometimes there are minor adjustments so caution the customer not to play for a few hours or if possible stop by  soon after to make these minor adjustments to let off. At BU  if I had reglued  several at one time  I would then remove the action and put it on the closed lid  for a few hours  preventing usage while the glue dried.
    www.snowpianos.com


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    Martin Snow
    South Burlington VT
    617-543-1030
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  • 10.  RE: Steinway & Sons Model B - loose glue joint on jacks

    Member
    Posted 06-08-2021 21:56
    I did the repair today and it turned out to be a dozen loose/failing jack toes. I applied woodworking glue in the saddle and on the sides and top of each toe piece making sure the fit was straight and tight. one crazy thing I can not figure out was a missing jack toe on D6. I removed the action took off the top tack even removed all of the keys checked in the action cavity used bright lights to look between the action parts .. The owner has no idea about it and may have never noticed it f the note was infrequently played. We agreed to swap out A0 .

     I put forward and downward pressure on all the toes and ten pried away easily  D1 kept blocking and no amount of adjustment helped. Upon removing the whippen and examining it closely I found that the wood joint between the arm and toe was not flush and the toe had a slight downward angle. I used a hair dryer to soften the glue and managed to wiggle the pieces apart. I cleaned the old glue in the saddle and on the toe. when i reglued it i got a tight flush fit, after the whippen was re-installed I was able to get letoff.  Because the glue softened it proves why a non-CA glue is a  good choice for this repair.

    The wood glue direction label states not to put stress on the parts for 24 hours which I told the customer. CA may be a good emergency fix but as stated super thin would be not the proper viscosity.

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    James Kelly
    Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
    Pawleys Island SC
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