Pianotech

Lacquer where you applied it, is only going to gain volume, as you experienced. I use Bacons exclusively. Depending on the belly, I will need to both needle the shoulders, from about 9:30 up the the near crown, then put a very small amount of dope, using the back of a small acid brush just touching the ends of the string marks. If that doesn't do it, one drop of medium diluted  dope on each string mark.

I use B72 and ehtyl alcohol for my stiffening agents  now, so I can't speak to the concentrations of lacquer. With b72 I use my medium dilution mix mostly. I will look up the dilutions if you are interested in the B72 mix.  

One of the reasons I like Bacons, is that the hammer contains good resilience distrubuted pretty appropriately throughout the entire hammer. The job is to bring it up, and the amount of dope required is really quite small.  But, even though is seems that Bacons should not need shoulder needling, the needling often will seriously improve the tone all on its own. 


------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

In order to know where your string marks are with precision, so you can both needle and apply lacquer right where its needed, I suggest you use the carbon paper technique, to print the string contact on the crown. Knowing precisely where the string contact points are is important to precisely nail your target.

------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:29
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

Lacquer where you applied it, is only going to gain volume, as you experienced. I use Bacons exclusively. Depending on the belly, I will need to both needle the shoulders, from about 9:30 up the the near crown, then put a very small amount of dope, using the back of a small acid brush just touching the ends of the string marks. If that doesn't do it, one drop of medium diluted  dope on each string mark.

I use B72 and ehtyl alcohol for my stiffening agents  now, so I can't speak to the concentrations of lacquer. With b72 I use my medium dilution mix mostly. I will look up the dilutions if you are interested in the B72 mix.

One of the reasons I like Bacons, is that the hammer contains good resilience distrubuted pretty appropriately throughout the entire hammer. The job is to bring it up, and the amount of dope required is really quite small.  But, even though is seems that Bacons should not need shoulder needling, the needling often will seriously improve the tone all on its own.


------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

I am tone regulating a M&H Model T grand right now. In my experience, M&H pianos in general require more stiffening to the felt than Steinway's to bring out the treble. Of course, if you have not tapered the hammer side and shaped the tails enough to reduce significant weight, the hammers will sound much duller. If your stiffening agent is not too "rich" apply it right into the striking point and upper felts. While it is still wet, press a paper towel across the strike point to lift some of the stiffener from the surface cushion area. If when fully dry the tone is not too "bright", apply acetone to the strike/crown and mop again with a paper towel. If after that dries it is still too bright, wet with solvent little by little at strike point and wait a little for the solvent to soften before flooding the hammer full with solvent.

My stiffener of choice is lacquer. I prefer it to the acrylics because it will re-solution easier/quicker and over time, and as the hammers brighten up from playing the lacquer continues to dry out and weaken.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:33
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

In order to know where your string marks are with precision, so you can both needle and apply lacquer right where its needed, I suggest you use the carbon paper technique, to print the string contact on the crown. Knowing precisely where the string contact points are is important to precisely nail your target.

------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:29
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

Lacquer where you applied it, is only going to gain volume, as you experienced. I use Bacons exclusively. Depending on the belly, I will need to both needle the shoulders, from about 9:30 up the the near crown, then put a very small amount of dope, using the back of a small acid brush just touching the ends of the string marks. If that doesn't do it, one drop of medium diluted  dope on each string mark.

I use B72 and ehtyl alcohol for my stiffening agents  now, so I can't speak to the concentrations of lacquer. With b72 I use my medium dilution mix mostly. I will look up the dilutions if you are interested in the B72 mix.

One of the reasons I like Bacons, is that the hammer contains good resilience distrubuted pretty appropriately throughout the entire hammer. The job is to bring it up, and the amount of dope required is really quite small.  But, even though is seems that Bacons should not need shoulder needling, the needling often will seriously improve the tone all on its own.


------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

Before applying hardner to the sides i listen to the hammers dynamic capability. p<FF>p.  When a repeated note can't reach FF, then for me thats the indicator for applying to the sides. Sounds like you are describing that the attack is too soft. Applying hardner directly over the top would be my thinking.
-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Lenoir City, TN
865-986-7720
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 22:19
From: Edward McMorrow
Subject: Hammer Tone

I am tone regulating a M&H Model T grand right now. In my experience, M&H pianos in general require more stiffening to the felt than Steinway's to bring out the treble. Of course, if you have not tapered the hammer side and shaped the tails enough to reduce significant weight, the hammers will sound much duller. If your stiffening agent is not too "rich" apply it right into the striking point and upper felts. While it is still wet, press a paper towel across the strike point to lift some of the stiffener from the surface cushion area. If when fully dry the tone is not too "bright", apply acetone to the strike/crown and mop again with a paper towel. If after that dries it is still too bright, wet with solvent little by little at strike point and wait a little for the solvent to soften before flooding the hammer full with solvent.

My stiffener of choice is lacquer. I prefer it to the acrylics because it will re-solution easier/quicker and over time, and as the hammers brighten up from playing the lacquer continues to dry out and weaken.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:33
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

In order to know where your string marks are with precision, so you can both needle and apply lacquer right where its needed, I suggest you use the carbon paper technique, to print the string contact on the crown. Knowing precisely where the string contact points are is important to precisely nail your target.

------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:29
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

Lacquer where you applied it, is only going to gain volume, as you experienced. I use Bacons exclusively. Depending on the belly, I will need to both needle the shoulders, from about 9:30 up the the near crown, then put a very small amount of dope, using the back of a small acid brush just touching the ends of the string marks. If that doesn't do it, one drop of medium diluted  dope on each string mark.

I use B72 and ehtyl alcohol for my stiffening agents  now, so I can't speak to the concentrations of lacquer. With b72 I use my medium dilution mix mostly. I will look up the dilutions if you are interested in the B72 mix.

One of the reasons I like Bacons, is that the hammer contains good resilience distrubuted pretty appropriately throughout the entire hammer. The job is to bring it up, and the amount of dope required is really quite small.  But, even though is seems that Bacons should not need shoulder needling, the needling often will seriously improve the tone all on its own.


------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

Original Message:
Sent: 11/11/2020 10:20:00 PM
From: Edward McMorrow
Subject: RE: Hammer Tone

I am tone regulating a M&H Model T grand right now. In my experience, M&H pianos in general require more stiffening to the felt than Steinway's to bring out the treble. Of course, if you have not tapered the hammer side and shaped the tails enough to reduce significant weight, the hammers will sound much duller. If your stiffening agent is not too "rich" apply it right into the striking point and upper felts. While it is still wet, press a paper towel across the strike point to lift some of the stiffener from the surface cushion area. If when fully dry the tone is not too "bright", apply acetone to the strike/crown and mop again with a paper towel. If after that dries it is still too bright, wet with solvent little by little at strike point and wait a little for the solvent to soften before flooding the hammer full with solvent.

My stiffener of choice is lacquer. I prefer it to the acrylics because it will re-solution easier/quicker and over time, and as the hammers brighten up from playing the lacquer continues to dry out and weaken.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:33
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

In order to know where your string marks are with precision, so you can both needle and apply lacquer right where its needed, I suggest you use the carbon paper technique, to print the string contact on the crown. Knowing precisely where the string contact points are is important to precisely nail your target.

------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:29
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

Lacquer where you applied it, is only going to gain volume, as you experienced. I use Bacons exclusively. Depending on the belly, I will need to both needle the shoulders, from about 9:30 up the the near crown, then put a very small amount of dope, using the back of a small acid brush just touching the ends of the string marks. If that doesn't do it, one drop of medium diluted  dope on each string mark.

I use B72 and ehtyl alcohol for my stiffening agents  now, so I can't speak to the concentrations of lacquer. With b72 I use my medium dilution mix mostly. I will look up the dilutions if you are interested in the B72 mix.

One of the reasons I like Bacons, is that the hammer contains good resilience distrubuted pretty appropriately throughout the entire hammer. The job is to bring it up, and the amount of dope required is really quite small.  But, even though is seems that Bacons should not need shoulder needling, the needling often will seriously improve the tone all on its own.


------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

Original Message:
Sent: 11/11/2020 10:20:00 PM
From: Edward McMorrow
Subject: RE: Hammer Tone

I am tone regulating a M&H Model T grand right now. In my experience, M&H pianos in general require more stiffening to the felt than Steinway's to bring out the treble. Of course, if you have not tapered the hammer side and shaped the tails enough to reduce significant weight, the hammers will sound much duller. If your stiffening agent is not too "rich" apply it right into the striking point and upper felts. While it is still wet, press a paper towel across the strike point to lift some of the stiffener from the surface cushion area. If when fully dry the tone is not too "bright", apply acetone to the strike/crown and mop again with a paper towel. If after that dries it is still too bright, wet with solvent little by little at strike point and wait a little for the solvent to soften before flooding the hammer full with solvent.

My stiffener of choice is lacquer. I prefer it to the acrylics because it will re-solution easier/quicker and over time, and as the hammers brighten up from playing the lacquer continues to dry out and weaken.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:33
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

In order to know where your string marks are with precision, so you can both needle and apply lacquer right where its needed, I suggest you use the carbon paper technique, to print the string contact on the crown. Knowing precisely where the string contact points are is important to precisely nail your target.

------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 20:29
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: Hammer Tone

Lacquer where you applied it, is only going to gain volume, as you experienced. I use Bacons exclusively. Depending on the belly, I will need to both needle the shoulders, from about 9:30 up the the near crown, then put a very small amount of dope, using the back of a small acid brush just touching the ends of the string marks. If that doesn't do it, one drop of medium diluted  dope on each string mark.

I use B72 and ehtyl alcohol for my stiffening agents  now, so I can't speak to the concentrations of lacquer. With b72 I use my medium dilution mix mostly. I will look up the dilutions if you are interested in the B72 mix.

One of the reasons I like Bacons, is that the hammer contains good resilience distrubuted pretty appropriately throughout the entire hammer. The job is to bring it up, and the amount of dope required is really quite small.  But, even though is seems that Bacons should not need shoulder needling, the needling often will seriously improve the tone all on its own.


------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

I use these hammers frequently, it's my go to for smaller Steinways.  On the Steinway B I use Wurzen felt which produces a bit more power and brightness out of the box (Steinway D's are a different subject).  I probably would have used a Wurzen felt on this piano but that doesn't mean the Bacon felt won't produce a good result with some hardening.  I would use Pianotek's PianoLac in a 20% solution soaking the hammer right over the top for the entire piano (dilute with lacquer thinner for slower flashing off and better penetration than acetone).  For the top section, (you'll have to decide how far down the scale to increase the application strength) I would use a 30% solution and expect maybe a couple of coats on the top 5 or 6 hammers. 

This product dries without developing a lot of "crystalline" pinging and seems to remain more flexible than table top lacquer or sanding sealer, both of which I don't like for that reason.  If you have already hardened the low shoulders that shouldn't prevent you from doing the 20% solution over the top of the hammers but experiment with a hammer if you prefer.  

I don't like just hardening the crown alone without building a foundation underneath.  The problem is that you can end up with a piano that is relatively bright when played softly but actually gets duller when you play loud as the hammer collapses and buries the hardened surface.  The hammer should have a gradient of hardness so that as you play louder the hammer firms up adequately and you get a broader spectrum, more orchestra.  I actually prefer the crown itself to be somewhat soft and frequently, and generously, sugar coat the surface of the hammer (very shallow depth) so that you can get a very fine and controlled pianissimo and smooth una corda coloring in all positions.  

MH bellies tend to need a bit more from the hammer to drive everything so expect you will have to add something there.  I've also used a Renner Blue Point (Gr4) on those pianos with good results.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

What about the Weikert felt from Ronsen? Does anybody use them?

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-770-4312
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2020 11:58
From: David Love
Subject: Hammer Tone

I use these hammers frequently, it's my go to for smaller Steinways.  On the Steinway B I use Wurzen felt which produces a bit more power and brightness out of the box (Steinway D's are a different subject).  I probably would have used a Wurzen felt on this piano but that doesn't mean the Bacon felt won't produce a good result with some hardening.  I would use Pianotek's PianoLac in a 20% solution soaking the hammer right over the top for the entire piano (dilute with lacquer thinner for slower flashing off and better penetration than acetone).  For the top section, (you'll have to decide how far down the scale to increase the application strength) I would use a 30% solution and expect maybe a couple of coats on the top 5 or 6 hammers.

This product dries without developing a lot of "crystalline" pinging and seems to remain more flexible than table top lacquer or sanding sealer, both of which I don't like for that reason.  If you have already hardened the low shoulders that shouldn't prevent you from doing the 20% solution over the top of the hammers but experiment with a hammer if you prefer.

I don't like just hardening the crown alone without building a foundation underneath.  The problem is that you can end up with a piano that is relatively bright when played softly but actually gets duller when you play loud as the hammer collapses and buries the hardened surface.  The hammer should have a gradient of hardness so that as you play louder the hammer firms up adequately and you get a broader spectrum, more orchestra.  I actually prefer the crown itself to be somewhat soft and frequently, and generously, sugar coat the surface of the hammer (very shallow depth) so that you can get a very fine and controlled pianissimo and smooth una corda coloring in all positions.

MH bellies tend to need a bit more from the hammer to drive everything so expect you will have to add something there.  I've also used a Renner Blue Point (Gr4) on those pianos with good results.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

I have used the Ronsen Weikert Special hammers frequently over the last few years. They are my preferred hammer in most cases. My clients who have them on their Steinway and Yamaha pianos (models M-B and G2-C7) are quite happy with the tone. Typically just a few drops of B-72 in the upper treble is all I've needed for hardening. Based on instruments in high use (5-7 hrs per day) they seem to be the most durable hammer I've ever seen.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2020 10:01
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Hammer Tone

What about the Weikert felt from Ronsen? Does anybody use them?

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-770-4312

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2020 11:58
From: David Love
Subject: Hammer Tone

I use these hammers frequently, it's my go to for smaller Steinways.  On the Steinway B I use Wurzen felt which produces a bit more power and brightness out of the box (Steinway D's are a different subject).  I probably would have used a Wurzen felt on this piano but that doesn't mean the Bacon felt won't produce a good result with some hardening.  I would use Pianotek's PianoLac in a 20% solution soaking the hammer right over the top for the entire piano (dilute with lacquer thinner for slower flashing off and better penetration than acetone).  For the top section, (you'll have to decide how far down the scale to increase the application strength) I would use a 30% solution and expect maybe a couple of coats on the top 5 or 6 hammers.

This product dries without developing a lot of "crystalline" pinging and seems to remain more flexible than table top lacquer or sanding sealer, both of which I don't like for that reason.  If you have already hardened the low shoulders that shouldn't prevent you from doing the 20% solution over the top of the hammers but experiment with a hammer if you prefer.

I don't like just hardening the crown alone without building a foundation underneath.  The problem is that you can end up with a piano that is relatively bright when played softly but actually gets duller when you play loud as the hammer collapses and buries the hardened surface.  The hammer should have a gradient of hardness so that as you play louder the hammer firms up adequately and you get a broader spectrum, more orchestra.  I actually prefer the crown itself to be somewhat soft and frequently, and generously, sugar coat the surface of the hammer (very shallow depth) so that you can get a very fine and controlled pianissimo and smooth una corda coloring in all positions.

MH bellies tend to need a bit more from the hammer to drive everything so expect you will have to add something there.  I've also used a Renner Blue Point (Gr4) on those pianos with good results.

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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly

Original Message:
Sent: 11/14/2020 10:31:00 AM
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: RE: Hammer Tone

I have used the Ronsen Weikert Special hammers frequently over the last few years. They are my preferred hammer in most cases. My clients who have them on their Steinway and Yamaha pianos (models M-B and G2-C7) are quite happy with the tone. Typically just a few drops of B-72 in the upper treble is all I've needed for hardening. Based on instruments in high use (5-7 hrs per day) they seem to be the most durable hammer I've ever seen.

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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2020 10:01
From: Keith Roberts
Subject: Hammer Tone

What about the Weikert felt from Ronsen? Does anybody use them?

------------------------------
Keith Roberts
owner
Hathaway Pines CA
209-770-4312

Original Message:
Sent: 11-12-2020 11:58
From: David Love
Subject: Hammer Tone

I use these hammers frequently, it's my go to for smaller Steinways.  On the Steinway B I use Wurzen felt which produces a bit more power and brightness out of the box (Steinway D's are a different subject).  I probably would have used a Wurzen felt on this piano but that doesn't mean the Bacon felt won't produce a good result with some hardening.  I would use Pianotek's PianoLac in a 20% solution soaking the hammer right over the top for the entire piano (dilute with lacquer thinner for slower flashing off and better penetration than acetone).  For the top section, (you'll have to decide how far down the scale to increase the application strength) I would use a 30% solution and expect maybe a couple of coats on the top 5 or 6 hammers.

This product dries without developing a lot of "crystalline" pinging and seems to remain more flexible than table top lacquer or sanding sealer, both of which I don't like for that reason.  If you have already hardened the low shoulders that shouldn't prevent you from doing the 20% solution over the top of the hammers but experiment with a hammer if you prefer.

I don't like just hardening the crown alone without building a foundation underneath.  The problem is that you can end up with a piano that is relatively bright when played softly but actually gets duller when you play loud as the hammer collapses and buries the hardened surface.  The hammer should have a gradient of hardness so that as you play louder the hammer firms up adequately and you get a broader spectrum, more orchestra.  I actually prefer the crown itself to be somewhat soft and frequently, and generously, sugar coat the surface of the hammer (very shallow depth) so that you can get a very fine and controlled pianissimo and smooth una corda coloring in all positions.

MH bellies tend to need a bit more from the hammer to drive everything so expect you will have to add something there.  I've also used a Renner Blue Point (Gr4) on those pianos with good results.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2020 17:04
From: Denis Kelly
Subject: Hammer Tone

I have had an M&H Model A in the shop for rebuilding as a spec piano. After the rebuild and restringing,new Ronsen Bacon felt hammers felt were hung and the action regulated. While I have had good results in the past with the Bacon felt on two vintage Baldwin grands of similar size, the results with the M&H were extremely disappointing. The tone consists of a strong fundamental, and nothing else. Sanding and polishing did little. Surprised by the outcome, I reinstalled a few of the old hammers and the tone was much fuller with higher partials in evidence. With the new Ronsens, the sound is muffled. If I hadn't used them successfully before I might be tempted to blame the softness of the felt.

I tried applying a 1/5 lacquer/acetone solution to the sides of the hammers between the strike point and molding, but other than a slight increase in volume, the tone was unimproved. The lack of improvement made me hesitant to apply more lacquer.  My next thought was to iron the hammers, but after having lacquered them, I am concerned about the possibility of scorching or burning the felt.

I have a curved hammer iron connected to an 80 watt soldering iron, which I have previously used before but before I employ them, I thought I would query the PTG community. 

While I hope to salvage these Ronsen hammers, I would be interested in hearing what other hammers might work for these older Model A's.

Thanks.

Denis Kelly