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Scortino Insta-Coiler

  • 1.  Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-26-2021 20:15
    I thought there was a thread within this past year about the Scortino insta-coiler tool. I can't find it. Anyway, is there someone these days making them? I'd like to get myself one if at all possible.

    ------------------------------
    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Member
    Posted 04-26-2021 20:55
    Sciortino.
    | || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || ||| || |||
    jason's cell 425 830 1561




    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2021 00:45
    Nobody has been making them since Joe Sciortino died quite a few years ago.


    Regards,
    ~ jeannie

    Jeannie Grassi
    PTG Registered Piano Technician
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    206-842-3721
    grassipianos@gmail.com


    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2021 05:45
    Supply 88 makes a similar product, 3D printed.​

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2021 11:07
    Hi ALan,
    I think there might be some confusion about which Sciortino tool is being mentioned.
    The one by Supply 88 mimics the simpler version which holds the tuning pin while threading and turning it in the technician's hand. This can simply be made by boring a smaller hole in the end of a dowel.

    The other tool that Joe made was very sophisticated. The tuning pin would be partially pounded into the pinblock. The tools has a gangle and is calibrated for the size of the pin and gauge of wire. It assists in making a perfect coil with the exact number of coils on every pin. No one has duplicated this tool. Larry Loebel made an excellent YouTube video demonstrating both tools.

    I may have misunderstood which one that Cobrun was talking about but the latter is no longer available.

    Regards,
    ~ jeannie

    Jeannie Grassi
    PTG Registered Piano Technician
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    206-842-3721
    grassipianos@gmail.com


    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-27-2021 11:33
    Larry's demo video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ynA-7mgYbk

    ------------------------------
    David Bauguess
    Grand Junction CO
    970-257-1750
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2021 15:25
    Maybe we could convince Roger Gable to make a run of these. Or some other machinist on here.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego


    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2021 16:14
    Roger is not a machinist but he has a good connection to one.  I'll talk with him about it.

    Regards,
    ~ jeannie

    Jeannie Grassi
    Registered Piano Technician
    Bainbridge Island, WA 
    206-842-3721




    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-27-2021 17:14
    Hi, Jeannie,

    In case it is helpful, please know/pass along that I would certainly buy
    one of these, should they become available.

    Thank you very much!

    Kind regards.

    Horace

    On 4/27/2021 1:14 PM, Jeannie Grassi via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > Roger is not a machinist but he has a good connection to one. I'll talk with him about it.
    > Regards,~ jeannie
    > Jeannie GrassiRegistered Piano TechnicianBainbridge Island, WA grassipianos@gmail.com <grassipianos@gmail.com>206-842-3721
    >
    >
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 4/27/2021 3:25:00 PM
    > From: Paul McCloud
    > Subject: RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler
    >
    > Maybe we could convince Roger Gable to make a run of these. Or some other machinist on here.
    > Paul McCloud
    > San Diego
    >
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 4/27/2021 11:33:00 AM
    > From: David Bauguess
    > Subject: RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler
    >
    > Larry's demo video: ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ynA-7mgYbk
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > David Bauguess
    > Grand Junction CO
    > 970-257-1750
    > ------------------------------
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 04-27-2021 11:07
    > From: Jeannie Grassi
    > Subject: Scortino Insta-Coiler
    >
    > Hi ALan,
    > I think there might be some confusion about which Sciortino tool is being mentioned.
    > The one by Supply 88 mimics the simpler version which holds the tuning pin while threading and turning it in the technician's hand. This can simply be made by boring a smaller hole in the end of a dowel.
    >
    > The other tool that Joe made was very sophisticated. The tuning pin would be partially pounded into the pinblock. The tools has a gangle and is calibrated for the size of the pin and gauge of wire. It assists in making a perfect coil with the exact number of coils on every pin. No one has duplicated this tool. Larry Loebel made an excellent YouTube video demonstrating both tools.
    >
    > I may have misunderstood which one that Cobrun was talking about but the latter is no longer available.
    >
    > Regards,
    > ~ jeannie
    >
    > Jeannie Grassi
    > PTG Registered Piano Technician
    > Bainbridge Island, WA
    > 206-842-3721
    > grassipianos@gmail.com <grassipianos@gmail.com>
    >
    >
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 4/27/2021 5:45:00 AM
    > From: Alan Eder
    > Subject: RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler
    >
    > Supply 88 makes a similar product, 3D printed.???
    >
    > Alan
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Alan Eder, RPT
    > Herb Alpert School of Music
    > California Institute of the Arts
    > Valencia, CA
    > 661.904.6483
    > ------------------------------
    >
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 04-27-2021 00:44
    > From: Jeannie Grassi
    > Subject: Scortino Insta-Coiler
    >
    > Nobody has been making them since Joe Sciortino died quite a few years ago.
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    > ~ jeannie
    >
    > Jeannie Grassi
    > PTG Registered Piano Technician
    > Bainbridge Island, WA
    > 206-842-3721
    > grassipianos@gmail.com <grassipianos@gmail.com>
    >
    >
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 4/26/2021 8:15:00 PM
    > From: Cobrun Sells
    > Subject: Scortino Insta-Coiler
    >
    > I thought there was a thread within this past year about the Scortino insta-coiler tool. I can't find it. Anyway, is there someone these days making them? I'd like to get myself one if at all possible.
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Cobrun Sells
    > cobrun94@yahoo.com <cobrun94@yahoo.com>
    > ------------------------------
    >
    >
    > Reply to Sender : https://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&MID=733499&SenderKey=98a0c5cf-d1b9-4f42-986d-54cc639ac84a&MDATE=757645947%253c&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
    >
    > Reply to Discussion : https://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&MID=733499&MDATE=757645947%253c&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
    >
    >
    >
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    >


    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2021 17:45
    I have used the Scortino Insta-Coiler for close to 30 years and would not use anything else.  About 20 years ago I found a problem with them that caused the inner barrel to break.  I subsequently had a computer machining company re-design the inner barrel and make about 15 of them.  I sold them on this forum until they were gone.

    The inner barrels made for Schaff changed at some point so that the part that fit over the pin had square corners.  The square corners created a weakness in the edges of the inner barrel and they would crack.  The crack created movement so the inner barrel would seize up in the outer barrel.  This created a worthless tool.

    I had the re-designed inner barrel made with more of a rounded corner.  It solved the problem.  More material in that area strengthened the corners just enough.  I brought the issue to Schaff's attention and they were interested in me supplying them with inner barrels.  The problem was the cost to do such a thing with my contacts would have made the inner barrel as expensive as the whole tool.  So, I didn't pursue the fix as I had my two Scortino tools repaired and sold a few to some techs around the country.

    I bring this up so if someone is going to make some of these, make the inner barrel correctly.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-27-2021 17:53
    Thanks, Tim. I'll be sure to remember that. I've had mine for almost 30 years without any problems, but I remember others did run into what you have described.  
    Would you consider making them again?
    Regards,
    ~ jeannie

    Jeannie Grassi
    Registered Piano Technician
    Bainbridge Island, WA 
    206-842-3721




    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 07:52
    Hi Jeannie,

    Making the inner barrel again is not something I would consider.  Making the issue known for a future maker of the entire tool is what I am hoping to accomplish. 

    Thanks for asking though!

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 10:17
    Tim,

    Any chance of showing photos or design data? Could be helpful. In your leisure hours...😁

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-30-2021 13:00
    I'd like to revisit something that was mentioned recently. 

    On Sept 7th George "Bill" Davis wrote:

    "Ron Nossaman always said "tune during the attack". Always worked for me. "

    I remember Ron talking about this and listening to unisons that way (which I do) but I've never really known how to tune that way. Can you, or anyone else describe this technique? Is a different hammer technique needed? 

    Also, in the past, Jon Page mentioned something like tuning on the attack for Asian pianos and during the sustain for Steinways. (Sorry, can't find the exact quote) 

    So, please talk more about "attack" tuning. 


    Regards,
    ~ jeannie 

    Jeannie Grassi
    PTG Registered Piano Technician 
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    206-842-3721



    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 10:38
    Schaff has this. The picture doesn't look quite right to me but the description does.



    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 10:44
    I bought one of these from Schaff 5 or so years ago.  It sits unused in my drawer.  QC left a lot to be desired.

    ------------------------------
    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-28-2021 11:22
    I don't get what these are used for.  I do lots of stringing including installing wires on already installed pins. What do folks use this for?

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 11:51



    Original Message


  • 19.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 13:05
    I too have one of these sitting in my tool drawer, purchased 15-20 years ago. It would be handy on an upcoming restring with existing pins. If only I could get it to work reliably. 

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 13:07
    Hi everyone,
    It would be helpful when you reply to a thread if you read all of the previous responses.
    I’ll say it one last time. There are two Sciortino tools that assist in making coils. The one that Schaff sells is not the one that I have been talking about which is far more sophisticated and downright cool! It is used for stringing on pins already in the piano.
    Visit Larry Loebel’s YouTube video to understand what it looks like and how it works.
    ~ jeannie

    Jeannie Grassi
    Registered Piano Technician
    Island Piano Service
    206-842-3721
    grassipianos@gmail.com


    Original Message


  • 21.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-28-2021 13:49
    Yes, the one I am mentioning is the one that makes a nice clean coil on the pin that is already in the piano. I would like one of those fancy ones.

    ------------------------------
    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 22.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-28-2021 15:12
    Gosh...I had one of these when I first started...the fancy ones. Got rid of it, because I could not get it to work. Looks like maybe I missed something...but its gone now. Right up there with the infamous hitch loop winder, which I also could not figure out how to use. Invented my own  loop winder for that one.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 23.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 15:32

    So, Jim, invent your own version of the fancy Sciortino? Something which would be inexpensive to make?





    Original Message


  • 24.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-29-2021 08:58
    Problem with this Susan, is piano techs simply will not pay for a machined tool which is only produced in small runs...and by small I'm talking about a couple hundred...we are a rather cheap lot, I'm afraid...and then complain about the quality of tools available.  This is why I often make tools for myself, but don't try and produce them for sale.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 25.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-29-2021 09:44
    Jim is 100% correct.

    I learned this in graphic detail when designing, manufacturing, and marketing the Bushmaster and related cauls and such. The small minority of techs that are true business-minded people are not sufficient to support a "craft tool" operation. Sorry, but them's the facts.

    Pwg 


    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 26.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-30-2021 09:02
    One of the biggest difficulties in doing this new tool thing, is that maketing the tool represents at least 50% if not much more of the final retail price.  Folks don't just come clamouring to your door for this new swell tool...they have to be bludgeoned into buying it.  

    I used to get this with my music performances as well. Folks would say, "that's really nice, you should make a CD".  They had no idea that after the initial musical idea is created and recorded, you go into interminable sales mode...which basically, in a small "indy" recording, means all you do from then on, is market. 
    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 27.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-29-2021 09:53

    Hi, Jim

    I do understand. Perhaps, though, if you are able to come up with a home-made Sciortino-type alternative tool, you could share plans for it and let other people attempt to make one for themselves?

    We're a cheap lot, I understand totally, but some of us are also extremely good at constructing things. (Not all of us, alas.)




    Original Message


  • 28.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-29-2021 10:36
    If one owns a bridgeport and a decent metal lathe (surface grinder is nice too), one can make just about anything. Few of us are so equipped. Glen Hart though...wink wink...

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 29.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-29-2021 11:20

    Glen Hart deserves our eternal gratitude for the Hart Voicing Tool and the Hart spring tool, both!! Excellent to have at least two of each. I never want to be without either.




    Original Message


  • 30.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-29-2021 18:33
    agreed!  As well his idea for driving tuning pins with a pneumatic chisel, instead of a palm nailer was a slam dunk for me!  Not sure how it would be possible to regulate springs without that spring tool either.  What is the voicing tool?

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 31.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-29-2021 20:53

    The brass chopstick, with the tiny little screw and allen key to change out a broken needle. It has a rubber sleeve about a couple of inches long, so you don't jab yourself reaching for it. I put the sleeve on the back of the tool when using it.

    I put the tiny allen key through a styrofoam peanut, and store both in an old plastic film can so it won't be lost or broken. When the tool arrives new, the allen key goes through small holes in the rubber sleeve. I break a few needles so that when they are all the way into the tool they will be just the right length, and I keep them in a small needle case in the film can. But I break very few needles. I think I've only replaced one twice.

    I keep one Hart voicing tool in my purse, and another in my tuning kit.




    Original Message


  • 32.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-29-2021 22:21

    I keep one Hart voicing tool in my purse, and another in my tuning kit.
    Susan Kline,  04-29-2021 20:53
    That might come in handy for self-defense during Council.... ;-)

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS

    Live not by fear or lies.
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 33.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-29-2021 22:38

    <grin> I keep the needles very short.




    Original Message


  • 34.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-29-2021 20:54
    oh I see...the through the strings needle tool...I didn't realize it was Glen's too.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 35.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-29-2021 21:11

    Schaff #897, Hart Voicing Tool.




    Original Message


  • 36.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-29-2021 21:51
     

    Hart Voicing Tool

    Through the string grand voicing tool for fine voicing of individual hammers.

    This slender 9" brass tool allows easy access to hammers without pulling out the action. Needle is held by a set screw, and is replaceable



    ------------------------------
    Petrus Janssen
    Peachtree City GA
    678-416-8055
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 37.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 16:35
    Jim, it's likely the one you bought was the later, semi-defective version. Or maybe it just needed a clear instruction sheet?

    ------------------------------
    Patrick Draine
    Billerica MA
    978-663-9690
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 38.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Posted 04-28-2021 20:51
    Its hard to say if the instructions are just abysmal or if the tools actually work or not.  Sounds like several folks have cracked the code, though. I have a dummy pin system for stringing already installed pins. It would be nice not to have to open up the coil to get a coil and becket on those installed pins.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 39.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 21:40
    Jim,
    Maybe you were distracted. It’s not really rocket science. Once the tool is set up, and you get into a rhythm, it goes very quickly

    The beauty of it is that the coils come out beautifully neat and consistent.
    I don’t have big hands and they’re not as strong as an average man's so I enjoy all the help I can get from tools that do a great job.

    Regards,
    ~ jeannie

    Jeannie Grassi
    PTG Registered Piano Technician
    Bainbridge Island, WA
    206-842-3721
    grassipianos@gmail.com


    Original Message


  • 40.  RE: Scortino Insta-Coiler

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-28-2021 16:10
    Apologies, Jeannie. Guilty as charged.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------

    Original Message