Pianotech

  • 1.  The great aural-ETD Tune Off!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-13-2020 15:19

    We've all heard about the famous Tune-Off between Jim Coleman and Virgil Smith in the seventies. (Please forgive me if I get the peripheral details wrong. I was only in my single digits at the time 😉)

    Depending on who you talk to, the results were mixed. Some say Jim Coleman's tuning was better. Some say it was a tie.

    It doesn't matter because at the heart of the experiment, the data was flawed.

    You see, the procedure that required each technician to tune a piano - Virgil totally be ear, Jim using an ETD, the Accutuner I believe, but again, I could be wrong, and many argue he was using his ear as well - was technically flawed.

    It's like a poll that asks if you think the earth is flat. If we were to ask that question at a flat earther's convention, the poll would come back with the majority saying the earth is indeed flat. It doesn't matter what they say because it doesn't change what the truth is. (No flat earthers here I hope 🤞)

    The point is, it was all opinion. People subjectively decided which tuning they liked better. For an ETD that should not be good enough. ETD's set pitches objectively, to calculated frequencies, not to subjectively placed pitches it thinks sound good.

    But now we have the same technology that created the ETD that allows us to objectively finally answer the question:

    Are ETD's Better at Tuning Pianos than the Human Ear?

    Check out what I made. This video answers this question and let me know what you think.
    Click for Video:
    Are ETD's Better at Tuning Pianos than the Human Ear?

    Also, attend my class on Monday and I'll show you how I beat the ETD!

    Register here: FREE Zoom Class for Piano Technicians



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    Mark Cerisano, RPT
    B.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), Dip.Ed.
    https://howtotunepianos.com
    http://mrtuner.com
    1-866-678-8637
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  • 2.  RE: The great aural-ETD Tune Off!

    Posted 06-14-2020 03:25
    I'd just like to add that (being a part of data entry that I posted here on PTG a few days ago on my samplings of frequencies on a Steinway D tuned as close as I could to Cybertuner OTS Pure 12ths) I absolutely am on the audiences side, I listen to a piano's final outcome by ear because that is what listeners hear. But because of the customers/pianos I encounter and since I work as part of a company where consistency between technicians is one of our key objectives I do use Cybertuner day in and day out for tunings. Had I worked alone and for another type of environment (concert setting pianos rather than in-home) I'd venture to steer closer to Aural Tunings.

    Thank you and keep tuning to for music's sake!

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    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
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  • 3.  RE: The great aural-ETD Tune Off!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-15-2020 07:18
    It's not clear to me what 'take 3 measurements of each note' means, this from the introduction to Mark's video. Said video is itself an introduction, so maybe this is explained later in the class, but it looks like the class is not about the making of the chart, but about the tuning method, which I am familiar with superficially.
     
    So what 3 measurements were taken of each note?

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    Cindy Strehlow, RPT
    Urbana, IL
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  • 4.  RE: The great aural-ETD Tune Off!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-15-2020 11:50

    Cindy,

    Pianalyzer allows the technician to measure each note and get the frequencies of each partial.

    Cobrun measured each string three times. The precision was very good. Most readings were right on the money. (But precision and accuracy are two completely different things)

    Just to be clear, Cobrun did this for each string from C3 to C5. That's 25 notes. He measured each string 3 times and inputted by hand each frequency of the first 8 partials into the spreadsheet.

    That's 25 x 3 x 8 = 600 inputs! Note to mention all the formula formatting. He also did this again measuring the frequency of two strings to see if there was any Weinreich Drift going on. This was a monumental effort and he needs to be highly congratulated for it. Bravo Man. That was awesome.




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    Mark Cerisano, RPT
    B.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), Dip.Ed.
    https://howtotunepianos.com
    http://mrtuner.com
    1-866-678-8637
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: The great aural-ETD Tune Off!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 08:58
    Does anyone know the tolerances on the Cybertuner's Pianalyzer function?

    When Pianalyzer outputs a number for the measured frequency showing 5 or 6 digits, how many of those digits are reliable?  Is the tolernace plus/minus 0.5 Hertz? 1.0 Hz? 10 Hz?

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    Christopher Storch
    Belmont MA
    617-489-6436
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  • 6.  RE: The great aural-ETD Tune Off!

    Posted 06-14-2020 16:12
    Christopher, I'm not sure however you can see my data showing the samplings and averages on the post:

    Samplings of Steinway D Charted (Pure 12th OTS P)



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    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
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  • 7.  RE: The great aural-ETD Tune Off!

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-15-2020 11:51
    Look at the three different measurements. They are highly precise. But precision and accuracy are not the same thing. We need both.

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    Mark Cerisano, RPT
    B.Sc.(Mech.Eng.), Dip.Ed.
    https://howtotunepianos.com
    http://mrtuner.com
    1-866-678-8637
    ------------------------------