Pianotech

Extraordinary Schimmel C-208. Customer demonstrates a click when playing C#2, but only when the shift pedal is engaged. 
Super huge hint: C#2 is a bichord.
Looking forward to your solutions. Answer Tuesday afternoon when I get home.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message------

Extraordinary Schimmel C-208. Customer demonstrates a click when playing C#2, but only when the shift pedal is engaged. 
Super huge hint: C#2 is a bichord.
Looking forward to your solutions. Answer Tuesday afternoon when I get home.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message------

...Click on the down, or on the release?

Or next chapter technical is going to group-think scenarios like this.  It's fun!

Linda

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks. 

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2019 02:16
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Extraordinary Schimmel C-208. Customer demonstrates a click when playing C#2, but only when the shift pedal is engaged.
Super huge hint: C#2 is a bichord.
Looking forward to your solutions. Answer Tuesday afternoon when I get home.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Could it have been rehung if it were that askew?

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-03-2019 21:56
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks.

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2019 02:16
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Extraordinary Schimmel C-208. Customer demonstrates a click when playing C#2, but only when the shift pedal is engaged.
Super huge hint: C#2 is a bichord.
Looking forward to your solutions. Answer Tuesday afternoon when I get home.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message------

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks. 

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Well Geoff,

I guess you struck out on that one. Maybe next time? 😊


Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2019 11:23
From: Roger Gable
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Geoff,

The problem with these "puzzler" questions is that not enough information is provided to make an educated assessment of the problem.  Was the offending hammer spaced too close to its neighbor? Was there too much twist in the shank? Would a technician who is directly observing the problem been able to quickly identify the sound of the click? We, who don't have access to the piano may have picked up on that immediately. Maybe that is why there was little to no interest in solving the puzzle. Certainly, that is why I didn't respond.

Roger

Original Message------

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks.

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Hammer spacing: Too obvious. 
Shank twisting too much: How much is too much?
Loose hammer head: Again, too obvious.
Loose screws/bushings: Again, too obvious.
In all honesty I could not think of anything more relevant than the fact that the note was a bichord and the click ONLY occurred when the shift pedal was engaged. My thought was that the hammer only hitting on one string would have been the most important thing to mention since hitting on both strings created no click. I hoped that nobody here would think that I was inexperienced enough to not have already thought of all the normal solutions, most of which would apply whether the shift pedal was engaged or not. If I, as a technician, had been able to quickly identify the problem I probably would not have posted the puzzler in the first place. I wanted people to let it brew in the back of their minds for a while. My apologies for not providing better clues. Next time, I promise.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2019 11:23
From: Roger Gable
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Geoff,

The problem with these "puzzler" questions is that not enough information is provided to make an educated assessment of the problem.  Was the offending hammer spaced too close to its neighbor? Was there too much twist in the shank? Would a technician who is directly observing the problem been able to quickly identify the sound of the click? We, who don't have access to the piano may have picked up on that immediately. Maybe that is why there was little to no interest in solving the puzzle. Certainly, that is why I didn't respond.

Roger

Original Message------

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks.

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Nice to know the answer.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-03-2019 21:56
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks.

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2019 02:16
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Extraordinary Schimmel C-208. Customer demonstrates a click when playing C#2, but only when the shift pedal is engaged.
Super huge hint: C#2 is a bichord.
Looking forward to your solutions. Answer Tuesday afternoon when I get home.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

 When I am setting up the shift, I work to move the hammers past the left string of the trichords, but not of the bichords. I would consider the shift scenario described above as unusual. Am I just living too Sheltered an existence? :-)​

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-502-9103
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2019 14:55
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Nice to know the answer.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 04-03-2019 21:56
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks.

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2019 02:16
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Extraordinary Schimmel C-208. Customer demonstrates a click when playing C#2, but only when the shift pedal is engaged.
Super huge hint: C#2 is a bichord.
Looking forward to your solutions. Answer Tuesday afternoon when I get home.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

On a properly regulated piano the bichord hammers would never move over to hit only one string except for the lowest wider bichord agraffe notes. And all the tri-chord unisons would clear one string on full shift. If a grand is not regulated this way, the full effect of the passive coupler action of the unstruck third string is missing. 

If you use heavy hammers that stay on the treble strings way too long and thus require doping to get any brilliance, you will hear the nasty sound of the crusty edge of the ruined hammer when you begin to clear the third string. This is why so many newer pianos are ill-regulated to not clear the third string.

No wonder piano is not as popular as it once was. Too little tone color available makes for boring music. And these crappy actions have to be made loose or they don't play and they wear out really fast. WHO THE HELL CAN AFFORD THIS!

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-05-2019 00:48
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

 When I am setting up the shift, I work to move the hammers past the left string of the trichords, but not of the bichords. I would consider the shift scenario described above as unusual. Am I just living too Sheltered an existence? :-)​

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-502-9103

Original Message:
Sent: 04-04-2019 14:55
From: Jeffrey Gegner
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Nice to know the answer.

------------------------------
Jeffrey Gegner
Tipton IN
765-860-5900

Original Message:
Sent: 04-03-2019 21:56
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

OK, I said I would provide the answer yesterday, but nobody responded so I thought nobody cared. Now that a couple of you are interested I feel better. :-) Thanks.

With the shift pedal engaged, the hammer, when played, is striking only one of the two bichord strings. That causes the hammer to twist a tiny bit clockwise on the shank. (I had previously made sure the hammer was not loose on the shank.) So, even though the hammers were evenly spaced and traveled, they were still pretty close, so when the note that was clicking was played, but only when the shift pedal was engaged, upon hitting that one string on the right side of the hammer only, the slight twist caused the tail to hit against the hammer at rest just to its left. I simply filed off about a mm of the left side of the very bottom of the tail of the clicking hammer, so it no longer made contact with its neighbor, and the click was gone.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2019 02:16
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: A troubleshooting puzzler for you

Extraordinary Schimmel C-208. Customer demonstrates a click when playing C#2, but only when the shift pedal is engaged.
Super huge hint: C#2 is a bichord.
Looking forward to your solutions. Answer Tuesday afternoon when I get home.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------