Pianotech

  • 1.  mic placement for recording and upright

    Posted 02-03-2020 16:50
    Any recording folks out there have suggestions for  a 2 mic placement setup on an upright?

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 2.  RE: mic placement for recording and upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-03-2020 19:57
    When our upright was recorded the engineer used two condenser mics placed about 3 to 4 feet apart and about 4 to 6 feet behind the piano. I don't remember the mics but I'm sure they were out of my price range. 

    You can hear a couple of samples here:

    ddf

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    Delwin D Fandrich
    Fandrich Piano Company, Inc.
    Piano Design and Manufacturing Consulting Services -- Worldwide
    6939 Foothill Ct SW -- Olympia, WA 98512 -- USA
    Phone 360.515.0119 -- Mobile 360.388.6525





  • 3.  RE: mic placement for recording and upright

    Posted 02-04-2020 04:00
    I've heard it said by BBC engineers that a good place to record a grand piano is from underneath, the reverse side of the piano therefore. Putting the mics behind an upright therefore makes a lot of sense.

    Because I'm recording concerts live with special tuning, I'm using battery equipment. For that reason I don't want the extra current drain of a phantom power supply and am therefore using the vintage AKG D200, D202, D224 and UHER M538 mics, but it's difficult to get a pair working properly at all let alone up to specification. Just 2 out of 7 examples will be perfect but in my experience it's worth persevering with them. Before I started actually testing the mics individually https://youtu.be/s2Oy-piyl4w is a test of the different mics I had then. Not all were working properly to spec but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wdMbiOlw9s was recorded with a pair which were spot on.

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594





  • 4.  RE: mic placement for recording and upright

    Posted 02-04-2020 13:53
    I might ramble a bit here so apologies in advance, but I hope it's useful.

    Note: You should have isolating headphones (and someone to smack keys) to help with positioning, and also to check quality of sound with sample recordings without the piano being played.

    The first thing I would recommend is being aware of your acoustics:
    • is it solo piano, or are there other instruments?
    – if other instruments, you'll probably want close mics, unless classical.  If classical, ambient mics, with spot mic(s) on piano
    – If solo, you'll want to beware of, and work with the room acoustics.  Most rooms sound bad if not designed for studio or stage, and even then often still bad.
    – Even if only close mic'ing, how the piano speaks to the room will affect what the mics hear.
    •  imagine a triangle between the mic, the piano, and each reflective surface in the room
    – try positioning the piano and mics in locations that would make those various reflections return at different times (different distances) so that there's fewer reflections arriving at the mics at the same time.   Preview the sound, and experiment.  In some cases, the opposite of this might actually be most effective.

    • as for mic position:
    – definitely consider that in the mixing process, you'll want to have each mic panned hard left/right, so that their signal doesn't interfere with each other.  BUT preview what position you come up with in mono to see if there's much interference (phasing) between the mic signals, when the recording inevitably gets mixed down to mono on some bluetooth speaker etc.
    – You can try a "spaced pair" with the mics far from each other, on either side of the piano (experiment for position and capsule angle)
    ––– I've recorded spaced with mics a couple feet out out from and just higher than the piano, positioned at the width of either side of the piano, case open.
    – Another one would be the ORTF technique which captures a realistic/balanced sound, and if wearing headphones becomes 3D.

    – rear of piano can work too
    – if only 2 mics though, don't attempt a rear/front combination

    • Try to get it to sound as balanced an natural as possible, and leave as little as possible to the mixdown/post-production.
    – record samples of each set up and label them, so that you can refer back to what you did.  Often a previous setup will sound better
    – take a break to let your ears rest, and if possible listen back to the samples on multiple or at least another set of full-range speakers in another room.  That might reveal something that the headphones didn't.

    Hope that helps!

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    Robin Whitehouse
    Santa Cruz CA
    robin@santacruzpiano.com
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  • 5.  RE: mic placement for recording and upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-05-2020 02:43
    While I am no recording pro I have recorded pianos a bit with decent equipment.
    In an experiment with a customer who had great equipment we tested 8 mics and listened to the differences in each as well as different placements.
    What I came away with from the experiment was that the mix sounded best with more mics.
    If you have more than 2 mics try off the left and right sides just above the piano, behind the piano, below the keyboard and spaced off in the room.  Then mix in the different inputs to find the sound you like best.  Eliminate any mic positions you don't like or blend them all in.
    I have only regretted not having enough mics.
    If you have the mics and tracks use them!

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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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