Pianotech

  • 1.  Re-glueing Keytop

    Posted 09-30-2019 17:29
    I have an eight-year-old Yamaha upright in my shop that I was doing some keywork on (balancing keys). Upon removing one of the naturals, the keytop popped off. It came off quite cleanly with 99% of the glue remaining on the wooden keystick. I have never installed new keytops on a set of keys (or even one key!). I've done field repairs on old uprights with CA glue, but this piano is showroom condition and I want to do it right (or have it done right). Is there any good technique that I (i.e. one without any keytop jigs/tools) can employ to re-glue this keytop? Picture attached. Or should I just take it to someone who knows what the heck they are doing?


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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
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  • 2.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-30-2019 17:37
    Hi Terry,

    I just did this for the first time about a month ago. I ordered a small 3 oz. tube of PVC-E glue from Howard's Piano Industries. You can visit Howard's at: https://www.howardpianoindustries.com/pvc-e-glue/ and order the glue, as well as watching a free how-to video. Best,

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    Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
    Piano Technician / Artisan
    (805) 315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
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  • 3.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Member
    Posted 09-30-2019 18:01
    Carefully check the other naturals. Known glue problem with some Yamahas. PVC-E or Roo works fine. Scuff the top of the key wood first. If it's just one or two, glue while on the frame so that you can use adjacent keys for alignment guide.

    Deb





  • 4.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-30-2019 18:16
    I'll tell you how I'd approach it, and then leave it to you to figure out what procedure to choose.

    I'd leave the original glue on the key stick. I'm assuming it's even and there are no lumps. By not sanding, etc., you'll assure that the keystick is flat, uniform, and not slanted.

    I'd take a small amount of white glue (like Elmer's) and smear it over the keystick, spreading it out so a thin but uniform layer covers it all.

    Then I'd VERY CAREFULLY clean every trace of white glue from my hands.

    I'd turn the plastic keytop over onto a clean towel.

    I'd drop a number of drops of CA over the keystick, making sure that a drop or two is near both the front and the rear end, but not putting any too near the edges. What is desired is to have some CA every half inch or so along the keytop, but not have so much that any squeezes out. The reason for this is that the main danger from gluing the keytop with CA is that if any at all gets onto the top side, it will be visible and not removable.

    Then I'd carefully pick up the keytop by the edges, turn it over, and carefully place it exactly where it should be. There is only one try for this. It is important to keep CA off your hands as you pick up and turn over the keytop.

    When you are satisfied with the placement, once again make sure that no CA is on your hands, and gently press the keytop against the keystick, starting in the center and working toward the front and the back. Be sure that if there is any squeeze out that you don't touch it, so it won't end up on top. It can be cleaned off the edges once all the glue has set up.

    Sounds more complicated than it is .... but it calls for a very neat-handed approach. Assuming the layer of white glue is even, thin, and wet, and the right amount of CA is used, adhesion ought to be good. You might be able to feel heat through the keytop as the two glues come into contact.

    I don't spread out the droplets of CA because leaving them alone means that they will not set up before meeting the white glue. If they are spread into a layer, the humidity in the air will very quickly cause them to set up.

    If you have any doubts, given that the piano is in showroom condition, find a scrap key, some kind of plastic keytop or piece of keytop, and practice a little. Because the two glues in contact set up immediately, you do not need a jig or a clamping system. But because CA glue on a keytop (or on a counter top, don't ask me how I know!) cannot be removed or disguised, careful concentration is required.

    If you are really fumble-fingered and manage to glue yourself to yourself or something else, having acetone (nail polish remover, for instance) available is prudent -- but you'd have to be really all over the place to  need it. Acetone will also trash the surface of a keytop, dissolving it.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 5.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-30-2019 22:27
    First of all, this is a known problem with some Yamaha pianos out of a certain factory. That factory, without asking, tried a different way to glue on keytops. Yamaha is now discovering that this happened and acknowledges that this falls under factory warranty. I'd call Yamaha before I did any repairs and confirm. They will pay to have the entire set of white keytops replaced.

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 6.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Posted 09-30-2019 22:30
    What Geoff said.

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    Ted Rohde
    Central Illinois
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  • 7.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-01-2019 00:15
    Geoff has the answer, I've found that Yamaha is willing to go the extra mile to avoid a bad reputation.
    That said, I'd like to add a few things about Susan's solution which I have no doubt is efficacious. I would remove the old glue from the key stick with lacquer thinner so you're sure you are gluing to the wood, the white glue will not cut through the layer of contact cement. The glue can usually be rubbed or scraped off of the keytop, if you're going to use the lacquer thinner on the keytop, do so with extreme caution using perhaps a q-tip trying only to make contact with the glue.
    As Susan indicates, using Ca glue and or acetone is fraught with danger to the keytop, it melts the material so any contact with the surface will leave a permanent scar; one thing I've done to ward that off is to cover the keytop with masking tape.
    Also, not mentioned is alignment. Since this process is pretty much a one-shot deal, you want to be confidant that the keytop is going exactly into position. Clamping wood to the key at the back of the key stick and on one side will allow you to dry-fit the top so that the front aligns with its neighbors and from side to side.

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    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
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  • 8.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-01-2019 11:00
    Good suggestions, Steven.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 9.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-03-2019 10:58
    I would strongly suggest contacting Yamaha on the issue. This is what warranties are for. It is a defect in manufacturing. 

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 10.  RE: Re-glueing Keytop

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-03-2019 11:30
    Just felt like sharing about a Yamaha in my neck of the woods. The keytops started coming off & the customer contacted Yamaha. Yamaha contacted me to ship them the keytops & they shipped them back in perfect shape. :-)

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    Maggie Jusiel
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
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