Pianotech

  • 1.  Noisy jacks

    Member
    Posted 10-22-2018 12:33
    I posted about this a week ago. A big thank you to Benjamin Sanchez who posted the solution in another thread. 
    On a grand action
    When the jack would return there was an audible tick. This sound is similar to wood on wood. Like the felt is gone under the hammer butt on an upright. As usual, there is a 4+ mm pile of pressed felt and a spoon.

    The pro felt had little to no effect on the sound. I let it dry a few days with no jack spring pressure. 

    There was a black spot on the stop felt and this was a dusty action so I found a small threaded tap and gently cleaned the dirt off the face of the felt. 
    Some change in sound but still a  wooden tick that resonates 

    Ben suggested needling the felt with a chopstick voicer. Jurgen sells them. I have a brass one from Joe Goss but it was suggested it is too thick to get in easily. I realized Claudio had given us one as a gift from Fazioli at the all day seminar in Utah a few years back. I chose the most offensive section and stabbed the felts 10 to 20 times. A slight wiggle and lift seemed to help the whole thing plump up. Seemed to be doing it!!!
    I jumped up and went in the house without marking where I was. Uh oh. I went down the line of jacks, flipping them. 
    BINGO!!!, it was so obvious where I had stopped. No tick just a dull thud where I stopped. 
    A 30 minute fix.

    I bent the spring to resemble the shape of a steinway rep spring. No difference in noise. 
    I removed 2 grams of weight off the hammers. The weight was 10+ grams up to note 48 with 4 leads in the keys. I replaced the flattened knuckles.
    Obviously the change in weight will soften the spring. 
    The combination of proper regulation and fluffing the felt should do the job. 


    ------------------------------
    Keith Roberts
    owner
    Hathaway Pines CA
    209-728-2163
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-22-2018 18:51
    Hi Kieth,

    Glad I could offer a solution that worked! For the record, if someone wants to try this method, the reason I recommended using the retractable chopstick voicer now sold by Jurgen at PianoForte Supply is because you must needle the felt straight on, not coming in from the side. Side needling may cause the glue to break or shift the position of the felt, which moves the position of the jack, which leads to more regulation work. It's really a simple job, and very easy to do with litttle to risk other than 30 minutes of your time. Glad it worked for you Kieth!

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-22-2018 22:35
    30 minutes is actually quite a lot of time needling. How long is this effect expected to last. I've needled but often think my time might be better spent replacing felt as that takes not so so long.This is a most common grand noise issue and deserves time analysis.


  • 4.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-22-2018 23:16
    I think 30 minutes is a reasonable amount of time for this job. You have to either disassemble the action, or come at it from a certain angle. Then you have to go out that same angle, then repeat on the next note. I did it almost six months ago, I think, and haven't noticed any changes in status (my church's piano, I check it every week).

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Posted 10-23-2018 07:24
    I have done this twice in the last three or four years to a Young Chang G-185. The clicking noise comes back after a while. I would say the job takes more like 20 minutes with the chopstick voicing tool.  Slide the action out on your knees, and needle away.

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Member
    Posted 10-23-2018 11:30
    I understand replacement is the better but not always. Replacement will take a minimum of 3 hours and that's if you do it in the customers home and you just happened to have the right felt with you. 
    I live in the mountains and 25 miles is my average distance to a client. Return trips are very expensive. The regulation of the jacks as they settle to the new felts costs $$$ to the client. I can needle 6 times vs one replacement. The same could be said about a set of hammers. New hammers is always better than trying to soften up a shrill set of Yamaha hammers. 
    Thank You again Ben for the report on the fact that it doesn't return immediately. Eventually the noise will return even with a new set.

    I find that shop work is best done in the shop. The replacing of felt when the wood buttons are cracked and the glue they used wasn't what you expected and pulling them off left a pile of stuck felt. Sitting at the clients home clamping split buttons and taking an hour over while you sweat because you can't swear,,,,
    I am thinking of setting up my 6 x 10 covered trailer into a mobile piano shop but that is still more expensive.  
    That being said,, this method only takes 1/2 hour with the action sitting in your lap. It removes an annoying noise. The regulation is reasonably easy. 






  • 7.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-06-2019 23:38
    A follow up to this thread:

    The clicking jack felt has come back. It's been somewhere between 12-18 months since I first needled it. The clicking is minimal, hardly noticeable whenever I or someone else play. I only hear it when I listen for it. 

    So, this is in fact a temporary solution. My guess is you'll have to do it again about 20-24 months after the first time. FWIW,

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Member
    Posted 04-07-2019 11:00
    Thank you,, I'll let you know how the ones I did progress. It worked quite well for the work involved.





  • 9.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-08-2019 11:34
    What about a drop of Profelt? Would that work?

    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Noisy jacks

    Member
    Posted 04-08-2019 18:08
    Pro felt was my first idea. Didn't work. 
    Seems there is a hard spot that develops under the stop spoon and the surface of the felt glazes over with dirt. I filled them with profelt, scraped the surface of the felt to remove any dirt. That helped but when I aggressively needled the felt, the ticking went to a dull thud which was plenty acceptable and much quieter. I'll see if mine comes back. The rebuild was last fall