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Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

  • 1.  Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Posted 10 days ago
    Does anyone regulate dampers for what they are actually used for...damping? I see in different books to regulate dampers to all lift at the same time but that is different than regulating them to all damp at the same time. If you do regulate so that they all damp at the same time (rather than focusing on them lifting at the same time), how do you do it? On vertical and grand...

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    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
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  • 2.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Member
    Posted 10 days ago
    If the all lift simultaneously, they will dampen simultaneously. But that might not be desirable. Pedal release can be noisy. Some pianists prefer the bass to dampen last, which would cut down on simultaneous impact or womp. Individual note lift is a different story, especially at the bass/tenor break with the offset damper heads; if they lift in sync then they lift late in the keystroke. I usually under cut the end lifter felt and insert a thin shim.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 3.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    I am all ears (eyes?) on this thread. One of my goals for the next year is to raise my skill level in grand damper regulation.  It exists now at far too basic a state. I don't lack tools on the shelf.  I lack precision and nuance.

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    Floyd Gadd
    Regina SK
    306-502-9103
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  • 4.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Posted 10 days ago
    I guess I am asking because of uneven damper felt and damper lever felt wear; what if they they all lift visually at the same time but whenever you play a cluster of notes and slowly release the pedal...and they don't all damp evenly or at the same time, leaving some slight "ringers" even though they are all lifting at the same time.






  • 5.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Member
    Posted 10 days ago
    That indicates that the key lift is uneven or unisons unlevel.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 6.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 8 days ago
    I am not sure if this is the case, but I feel I need to mention: the instructions in our finest publications are for regulating new or newly rebuilt pianos. Lifting and damping will be close to perfect in these cases, I assume. I myself rarely work on such pianos.

    In well worn pianos, do you have to choose even damping over even lifting?

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    Cindy Strehlow, RPT
    Urbana, IL
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  • 7.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Posted 10 days ago
    Uhh, I'm not sure how that would be from uneven key level as I didn't mention using the keys yet, all I'm dealing with at the moment is the pedal itself lifting the dampers, NOT the keys.






  • 8.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Member
    Posted 9 days ago
    Well then, that leaves uneven trichord and bichord felts. If one string is lower than the other two, that wire won't dampen as well. So to get consistent dampening, the felts have to be uniform and the unisons have to be level but not necessarily mated with the hammer. Hammer mating then becomes is a whole other procedure.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 9.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10 days ago
    Floyd

    For me, regulating damper, both upright and grand, have always been one of the hardest things I have done. Just as I think I've got it, one more little move to make it even better, makes it worse. It just takes time and and tremendous amount of patience. And a strong back, taking the action in and out.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    St. Augustine, FL 32095
    Tnrwim@aol.com
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  • 10.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Member
    Posted 9 days ago
    I agree with Wim....its freak'in hard to do a really nice damper job.

    However, recently my shut off timing, and efficiency of damping took a quantum leap. After setting the dampers up to both lift and shutoff evenly as I could, new dampers, hit them all with Everclear (ethyl alcohol) with no added water, just straight up hooch. Then with either weighted damper socks, or 1 lb rice or lentil bags from the grocery, placed them on the dampers, then weighted them further with 1/lb stackable sash weights across the damper sock. The tri-chords will then need to be trimmed, but even-ess and efficiency of damping should be excellent.

    WIth the Everclear, and no added water, there is a very little water the alcohol pics up from the air,  but not enough to create staining on the felts.

    That all assumes excellent side-to-side alignment, and bottom wire adjustments. Without the basics done well, it will still be mehh.


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 11.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Posted 8 days ago
    Poor quality felt or felt saved from numerous sets(various thicknesses) would cause such problems. Also what i call Damper tray tilt would give a person a hard time. I usually take the extra time to make sure the pivots are at the same height. If the tray lifting felt is in bad condition, its inexpensive and well worth replacing.

    -chris

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXszvbSoaKs&t=69s

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    Chernobieff Piano Restorations
    "Where Tone is Key"
    chernobieffpiano.com
    grandpianoman@protonmail.com
    Lenoir City, TN
    865-986-7720
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  • 12.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Member
    Posted 7 days ago
    Lucinda,

    Precision skills like damper regulation, as described for new damper work, or any action regulation, require the entire system be working at optimum, or close to optimum conditions. If any parameter in the system is challenged we have to go into "make it work mode".  By definition, a tired system, will not be able to function like a new system, and one has to negotiate, in one's own brain, which parameters have to be compromised. There will be no "right" answer...one just does the best they can.

    Trying to graft concert level work, described in the journal, on to poorly maintained and just plain tired pianos, will unfairly, make the site tech feel like they don't know what they are doing. The systems might, with luck, occasionally be improved by the tech, without parts restoration. But, as we all have experienced, touching tired damper systems at all, without restoration, is a recipe for hours volunteered on-site trying to resolve a problem we could have avoided by leaving the tired system be. My approach, is to leave it be, until it was time to restore. Only fix as per triage protocols, and only on limited problem children notes.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 13.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 7 days ago
    Thanks for clarifying. It is as I suspected. 

    I brought it up because our beginners need to know this.

    Cindy





  • 14.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 7 days ago
    Yes, the damper system (grand or upright) is one that becomes "accustomed" to its situation as time wears on. Changing something (trying to fix some annoyance) can almost invariably create other issues collaterally. I always warn the client that short of actual felt replacement (on a problem child) if I attempt to fix it likely more problems will arise. Therefore...

    Peter Grey Piano Doctor

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 15.  RE: Regulating Dampers for Raise or for Damping?

    Member
    Posted 7 days ago
    "In for a penny, in for a pound."

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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