Pianotech

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Am I being taken to the woodshed?

There's an underlying theme in all of these discussions which is that use or reliance on ETD's is a problem and results in a decline in tuning skills. I just don't believe that. But that's the argument that has fueled other debates about the RPT tuning test, what should be allowed and what shouldn't or that the device, as was suggested, becomes a crutch. 

no one would argue that oral skills aren't necessary to be a competent piano tuner. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't avail ourselves of the most current technology to help us do a better and more efficient job. That there's still so much resistance to the use of this tool I find surprising. Moreover I would argue that not availing yourself if this technology is actually robbing you of a something which ultimately benefits your customers. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Am I being taken to the woodshed?

There's an underlying theme in all of these discussions which is that use or reliance on ETD's is a problem and results in a decline in tuning skills. I just don't believe that. But that's the argument that has fueled other debates about the RPT tuning test, what should be allowed and what shouldn't or that the device, as was suggested, becomes a crutch. 

no one would argue that oral skills aren't necessary to be a competent piano tuner. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't avail ourselves of the most current technology to help us do a better and more efficient job. That there's still so much resistance to the use of this tool I find surprising. Moreover I would argue that not availing yourself if this technology is actually robbing you of a something which ultimately benefits your customers. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Maggie

Thanks for sparing me the lash. 😉

In the words of Violet Crawley (Downton Abbey) "I don't argue, I explain".

Honestly I didn't read the entire thread but was just responding to a part of it. I'm not sure why this type of discussion persists. Of course both methods have value. I say that as someone who spent years if not decades aural tuning. I'm glad I learned that way. But I would not condemn an ETD user or suggest they can't do a very good job that way.

When I was learning the only "device" available was a Conn Stobotuner. In that case the argument for the limitations of machine tuning definitely had merit. But not today. 

i would guess that anyone who decides to be a piano tuner has aural acuity, at least enough to tune a solid unison. Of course that skill is enough of a skill to learn how to tune a temperament but some opt not to pursue it and that's ok with me. 

Anyway, I apologize for my intemperance but old habits die hard. 

Am I being taken to the woodshed?

There's an underlying theme in all of these discussions which is that use or reliance on ETD's is a problem and results in a decline in tuning skills. I just don't believe that. But that's the argument that has fueled other debates about the RPT tuning test, what should be allowed and what shouldn't or that the device, as was suggested, becomes a crutch. 

no one would argue that oral skills aren't necessary to be a competent piano tuner. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't avail ourselves of the most current technology to help us do a better and more efficient job. That there's still so much resistance to the use of this tool I find surprising. Moreover I would argue that not availing yourself if this technology is actually robbing you of a something which ultimately benefits your customers. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Maggie

Thanks for sparing me the lash. 😉

In the words of Violet Crawley (Downton Abbey) "I don't argue, I explain".

Honestly I didn't read the entire thread but was just responding to a part of it. I'm not sure why this type of discussion persists. Of course both methods have value. I say that as someone who spent years if not decades aural tuning. I'm glad I learned that way. But I would not condemn an ETD user or suggest they can't do a very good job that way.

When I was learning the only "device" available was a Conn Stobotuner. In that case the argument for the limitations of machine tuning definitely had merit. But not today. 

i would guess that anyone who decides to be a piano tuner has aural acuity, at least enough to tune a solid unison. Of course that skill is enough of a skill to learn how to tune a temperament but some opt not to pursue it and that's ok with me. 

Anyway, I apologize for my intemperance but old habits die hard. 

Am I being taken to the woodshed?

There's an underlying theme in all of these discussions which is that use or reliance on ETD's is a problem and results in a decline in tuning skills. I just don't believe that. But that's the argument that has fueled other debates about the RPT tuning test, what should be allowed and what shouldn't or that the device, as was suggested, becomes a crutch. 

no one would argue that oral skills aren't necessary to be a competent piano tuner. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't avail ourselves of the most current technology to help us do a better and more efficient job. That there's still so much resistance to the use of this tool I find surprising. Moreover I would argue that not availing yourself if this technology is actually robbing you of a something which ultimately benefits your customers. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Thanks for the thoughtful response David - I'm not sure we really disagree on this. 

Most ETD users I know measure the samples, and then start at A0 and tune upwards doing unisons as they go. I believe this is standard practice. There are many situations where that would be a big waste of time.

When I say an ETD can be a crutch - I don't mean that it is always a crutch, but I think it is very common for technicians to be overly-dependent on them. And of course there are many technicians who are completely dependent on them.

Comparing an ETD to the tuning wrench? That's a big stretch. The ETD is a handy tool, and I find it can save me time by helping me quickly pretension a piano prior to tuning, and its convenient in locking in the tuning of the top octave or two. Other than that, I have not found a way to use it to save time. The reason being they are not flexible enough.

For example - on the PTG tuning exam if you can tune each note in the temperament within a 1.9 cent window you get a perfect temperament score. You can be .9 cents sharp or flat of the master tuning. That's quite a bit of flexibility. It's a reasonable standard.

As my aural skills have developed over the years, I find the challenge has become: how can I get to a beautiful tuning by making the least amount of changes possible? By floating pitch, listening to the overall tuning, and understanding musical tolerances, I can sometimes get through a tuning in half the time it took me back when every tuning was "started from scratch".

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160

Original Message:
Sent: 11-07-2021 22:52
From: David Love
Subject: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

I don't think that's a common belief (that etds are more accurate). Nor do I think aural skills are infallible, quite the contrary. A significant portion of the pianos people tune on a daily basis don't even merit such a discussion. Do I want to labor over an aural tuning on a wiry spinet?  No I don't. Assuming one has tuning lever skills a good aural tuning is quite good, so is an etd tuning in the hands of a competent user. A poor aural tuning sucks no matter how you slice it. Is there a poor etd tuning?  Probably not in competent hands. All etd users that I know tune unisons aurally so the only difference is setting the bearings. Calling an etd a crutch is like calling a tuning lever a crutch, can't you do it with a closed end wrench?  

ETDs are simply tools that contribute to efficiency, consistency, and help establish a consistent baseline from which tunings can be refined or altered if necessary. Nothing more.

For me they save time, help me enornously with pitch corrections (RCT), allow me to duplicate exactly tunings in the case of recording  and editing, give me a way to quantify the matching tunings of multiple pianos of different types being tuned together, give me a method to test instability situations due to humidity to see which way each section of the piano has moved, allow me to verify questionable notes that are "dirty" etc. etc.  The time savings allow me to give more comprehensive service in a similar timeframe than I would need to do a straight aural tuning situation- even more so in pitch correction situations. That benefits my customers.  

To not avail myself of such a tool would be a disservice to me and my customers. This debate is tiresome and unproductive and reeks of a kind of provincialism that refuses to accept progress in our trade.  And yes I passed the RPT exam with a strict aural tuning on a crappy piano. Time to get over it and move on. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 11-07-2021 22:11
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

One of the biggest fallacies of our industry is that ETD's are somehow more accurate than aural tuning. Maybe, maybe not - it depends on what you mean by accurate. The big flaw, is the notion that there is a specific pitch for each note that can be nailed down to less than 1/10th of a cent. When you've been in business a long time and have plenty of repeat work there are many instances that being tied to that concept will waste huge amounts of time that can be used to actually make the piano into a better instrument: AKA voicing, regulating, etc. 

I think there are many pianos that are nearly in-tune to begin with but the display is moving and the technician can't resist the urge to "stop the lights". Strong aural skills can give you a clear sense of appropriate tolerances given the particular piano and the particular situation. ETD's are great at measuring pitch, but are only pretty good about knowing the optimal place for each pitch. They are also not so great at knowing where you can be flexible. There is a lot they DON'T know: Where do the wire diameters change? How accurate is the progression of speaking lengths? How does that note sound with all three strings open (ETD's are often confused by open sting unisons).

Don't get me wrong I use my ETD on a regular basis in particular ways that make sense and are useful to my style tuning: Mostly this comes down to 10 minute pitch raises and fine tuning the top octave or two. Other than that I find them cumbersome and inefficient. Let me say that again: In many cases ETDs are CUMBERSOME AND INEFFECIENT. More often than not I believe they become a crutch.

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160

Original Message:
Sent: 11-06-2021 17:03
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

I enjoy the fact that I get to set and achieve certain goals in each tuning (analog/aural)...temperament, midrange, bass, then treble. I get to hear those 4ths wah, wah, wahing in the midrange, I get to hear and feel those 3rds and 6ths loud and clear going down into the bass, and I get to decide on fly what kind of musical stretch I will install into the treble section and refine it as I go. Listening to all those disected partials just turns my crank!

Peter Grey Piano Doctor

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-06-2021 13:15
From: John Formsma
Subject: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

Agree with the advantages. One advantage I would add is that it has helped me verify stability and lever technique because you can see exactly where the pitch is (at least with the Reyburn CyberTuner). It's possible to see the slightest wiggle either way. Over the years of using RCT, lever technique has gotten better from the visual confirmation of stability. I think the same accuracy could be possible with aural verification, but it would likely be so tedious that: either we would give up, or our ears would fatigue to the point of not being so distinguishing. The machine never gives up.

My tuning strategy is always do two passes, except on the rare occasion that it's so close that two passes is overkill. Yes, definitely helps with pitch raises. However, if it's 1/2 step or more flat, I'll tune the first pass aurally because it's hard for the machine to keep up. It's faster to take 10-12 minutes to pull up the pitch, and then let Smart Tune do its thing on the second pass.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Something just ain't right with all this.

Original Message:
Sent: 11-06-2021 10:42
From: Nancy Salmon
Subject: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

Original Message:
Sent: 11/6/2021 9:22:00 AM
From: John Formsma
Subject: RE: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

The app was not the problem. The device itself was the problem. When I turned it on, it went immediately to the initial set up screen.

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Something just ain't right with all this.

Original Message:
Sent: 11-05-2021 19:38
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez, RPT
Piano Technician / Artisan
(256) 947-9999
www.professional-piano-services.com

Original Message:
Sent: 11-05-2021 16:42
From: John Formsma
Subject: Essential to have aural skills (or ETD backup)

After turning on the ETD for this morning's tuning, the display showed the device had reset itself. Weird, but since I can tune very well aurally, there was no need to panic. Did an aural tuning, and all went well. A double-pass tuning, in and out in about an hour, twenty minutes. Event got a text later from the owner saying how much better it sounded.

Once I got home and could connect to wi-fi, the device went through a couple of screens and then was back to normal. Not sure why this happened. I used it yesterday and had powered it down as I normally do. But whatever it was, it's good to be able to tune without one's eyes. :)

Happy Friday!

------------------------------
John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS

Something just ain't right with all this.
------------------------------

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Ok, so you're doing two passes. I guess I missed that when I first read the message. Sorry. 

I have done so many pitch raises by both aural and ETD means that I've learned quick multiple passes are the way to go (for me anyway). I've not used PianoMeter, but maybe should check it out.

It's good when your pitch raise humor doesn't fall flat! :D

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Ok, so you're doing two passes. I guess I missed that when I first read the message. Sorry. 

I have done so many pitch raises by both aural and ETD means that I've learned quick multiple passes are the way to go (for me anyway). I've not used PianoMeter, but maybe should check it out.

It's good when your pitch raise humor doesn't fall flat! :D

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Can be kind of intense, yeah :)

And sometimes I don't feel like going that fast and a pitch raise might be 15-20 minutes. I have shoulder problems and sometimes the shoulder would rather not go that fast. But most of the time, I shoot for the 15 minutes or less for a 50-100c aural first pitch raise. At least after that, SmartTune has a fighting chance of the second pass being reasonably good.

Here is an actual audio recording from 2014 of the entire process.

Fujan lever on grands. Reyburn CyberHammer impact lever on verticals. 

Ok, so you're doing two passes. I guess I missed that when I first read the message. Sorry. 

I have done so many pitch raises by both aural and ETD means that I've learned quick multiple passes are the way to go (for me anyway). I've not used PianoMeter, but maybe should check it out.

It's good when your pitch raise humor doesn't fall flat! :D

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Can be kind of intense, yeah :)

And sometimes I don't feel like going that fast and a pitch raise might be 15-20 minutes. I have shoulder problems and sometimes the shoulder would rather not go that fast. But most of the time, I shoot for the 15 minutes or less for a 50-100c aural first pitch raise. At least after that, SmartTune has a fighting chance of the second pass being reasonably good.

Here is an actual audio recording from 2014 of the entire process.

Fujan lever on grands. Reyburn CyberHammer impact lever on verticals. 

Ok, so you're doing two passes. I guess I missed that when I first read the message. Sorry. 

I have done so many pitch raises by both aural and ETD means that I've learned quick multiple passes are the way to go (for me anyway). I've not used PianoMeter, but maybe should check it out.

It's good when your pitch raise humor doesn't fall flat! :D

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Can be kind of intense, yeah :)

And sometimes I don't feel like going that fast and a pitch raise might be 15-20 minutes. I have shoulder problems and sometimes the shoulder would rather not go that fast. But most of the time, I shoot for the 15 minutes or less for a 50-100c aural first pitch raise. At least after that, SmartTune has a fighting chance of the second pass being reasonably good.

Here is an actual audio recording from 2014 of the entire process.

Fujan lever on grands. Reyburn CyberHammer impact lever on verticals. 

Ok, so you're doing two passes. I guess I missed that when I first read the message. Sorry. 

I have done so many pitch raises by both aural and ETD means that I've learned quick multiple passes are the way to go (for me anyway). I've not used PianoMeter, but maybe should check it out.

It's good when your pitch raise humor doesn't fall flat! :D

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Can be kind of intense, yeah :)

And sometimes I don't feel like going that fast and a pitch raise might be 15-20 minutes. I have shoulder problems and sometimes the shoulder would rather not go that fast. But most of the time, I shoot for the 15 minutes or less for a 50-100c aural first pitch raise. At least after that, SmartTune has a fighting chance of the second pass being reasonably good.

Here is an actual audio recording from 2014 of the entire process.

Fujan lever on grands. Reyburn CyberHammer impact lever on verticals. 

Ok, so you're doing two passes. I guess I missed that when I first read the message. Sorry. 

I have done so many pitch raises by both aural and ETD means that I've learned quick multiple passes are the way to go (for me anyway). I've not used PianoMeter, but maybe should check it out.

It's good when your pitch raise humor doesn't fall flat! :D

Hi John,

I'm not sure which ETD / ETA you use. I use CyberTuner. If it's been over a month since it's connected to WiFi it will need to connect to make sure your subscription is still current. But you would still be able to tune the temperament with it. Odd that your app would just crash like that. 

For years the argument for learning how to tune aurally has been, what if your device runs out of battery? I've always found that to be a poor argument. Ever heard of a car charger? Or a portable battery? Or a cord, for crying out loud?

And then - I walked out the door last month and forgot my iPad. First time in five years. It was charged but a lot of good that did me with it sitting on my desk. So I had a choice to make. Do I tune aurally, or use CyberTuner on my phone? Given I'm not a quick aural tuner and the piano was a spinet that was seriously under pitch, I opted to use my phone. It worked. 

(I guess I'll never be without my backup at least. Kinda hard to get to an address you don't know without the GPS, LOL. No backup, no directions either. Oh well, that's the way it goes.)

For me, a better argument for learning aural tuning has been understanding why you're doing what you're doing. And, occasionally, you'll get a client that needs a "custom tuning." I'll leave it to your imagination as to what that constitutes, LOL. 

Far easier to do 1-2 quick passes to end up with a stable instrument. We're in this business to make money, and this is wasting a ton of time for little financial benefit.

Can be kind of intense, yeah :)

And sometimes I don't feel like going that fast and a pitch raise might be 15-20 minutes. I have shoulder problems and sometimes the shoulder would rather not go that fast. But most of the time, I shoot for the 15 minutes or less for a 50-100c aural first pitch raise. At least after that, SmartTune has a fighting chance of the second pass being reasonably good.

Here is an actual audio recording from 2014 of the entire process.

Fujan lever on grands. Reyburn CyberHammer impact lever on verticals. 

Ok, so you're doing two passes. I guess I missed that when I first read the message. Sorry. 

I have done so many pitch raises by both aural and ETD means that I've learned quick multiple passes are the way to go (for me anyway). I've not used PianoMeter, but maybe should check it out.

It's good when your pitch raise humor doesn't fall flat! :D