Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

  • 1.  Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Member
    Posted 06-14-2020 16:27
    I am working on a couple of older Steinway Actions and am not happy with the existing screws that are holding the action brackets to the key frame. Some strip out upon repeated removal and tightening. I will use West Systems Epoxy to plug the stripped holes, and I'd like to find more effective replacements for the original screws. Has anyone found the optimal screw to used to for Steinway action brackets that holds up over repeated servicing of the action and keeps a nice solid grip over time? (Pianos in question are 1949 Steinway L, and 1922 Steinway O)

    I did an extensive search on the forums and did not really find anything on this.
    Thanks,
    Joe

    ------------------------------
    Joe Burros
    Springfield MA
    413-303-1698
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 16:45
    It ain't the screws that's are the problem, it's the disintegrating hickory core in the rail. Replace that, or entire rails (WNG is an option). Plugging with wood, leather, epoxy/filler material might be acceptable for a handful.
    Good luck!

    ------------------------------
    Patrick Draine
    Billerica MA
    978-663-9690
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Posted 06-14-2020 16:54
    Cut a thin of buckskin. Apply glue in the hole, insert the strip, install the screw and let dry. I prefer to replace the screws with #10 pan head Robertson (square drive) screws.​

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 17:40
    What Jon said. And, sadly too many people do not know the proper way to reinsert a wood screw.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Member
    Posted 06-14-2020 18:04
    Thanks for the tip about the Robertson Screws. I just went to their website page that has their screw specifications. It looks like their "Low-Root" thread would be the one to get.
    https://118a4c58-c850-435b-9252-206e2c7147c0.filesusr.com/ugd/c38d6f_aede2d0fe1e74d28987f4945e550c29c.pdf

    I am going to use West Systems Epoxy to plug the stripped holes. I called up West Systems and they recommended their Gflex 655 epoxy for this job . It was about $25 for two big tubes that should last awhile.

    https://www.westsystem.com/specialty-epoxies/gflex-655-thickened-epoxy-adhesive/

    ------------------------------
    Joe Burros
    Cell: 646-410-7174
    jbcello@gmail.com
    www.fmi-newengland.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Posted 06-14-2020 22:38
    I get Robertson screws from McFeely's. They also carry a ball-end driver for angled access.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com


  • 7.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 18:00
    If the holes are still threaded, and you just want to preserve the wood so it will stand up to repeated removal of the screws, you can drip some thin CA glue in the hole. It will wick into the wood and firm it up. If you're worried about it filling up the hole, put some Protek or Prolube on the screw and insert it while the glue dries. It will be a custom fit for that screw. If the hole is stripped out already, this won't work.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego


    Joseph Burros
    I am working on a couple of older Steinway Actions and am not happy with the existing screws that are holding the action brackets to the key frame. Some strip out upon repeated removal and tightening. I'd like to find more effective replacements for these screws. Has anyone found the optimal screw to used to for Steinway action brackets that holds up over repeated servicing of the action and keeps a nice solid grip over time? (Pianos in question are 1949 Steinway L, and 1922 Steinway O)

    I did an extensive search on the forums and did not really find anything on this.
    Thanks,
    Joe

    ------------------------------
    Joe Burros
    Springfield MA
    413-303-1698





  • 8.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Posted 06-14-2020 20:21
    fill the old holes with west system 105 resin & hardener only...no fillers.  Then forget wood screws altogether. Use stainless sheet metal screws. this is what manufacturers are using now, including M&H. Its a straight pilot instead of wood screws tapered pilot, which makes absolutely no sense any more. I use no 10 x 1" stainless sheet metal pan head screws with phillips head, available at any hardware store on all s&s frames, and most other frames. Make sure to drill the proper size pilot...just wider than the screws root diameter, and put wax on the screw threads when you run them in the first time.

    Also, always back the screw into the hole "jump" the screw when re-inserting, and you will never wear these holes out.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-14-2020 20:35
    Like Jim, I have long used 1" #10 sheet metal Philips head​ screws for action brackets. They fit almost every existing a. b. screw hole I have encountered, and work well with the 6" bit in my cordless screwdriver. R&R action bracket screws like a pit crew!

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Posted 06-14-2020 21:11
    I'd also recommend having 2/ 6" drill bits on hand to do this job.  One bit, that fits the hole in the bracket, closely, to find the center of the bracket hole, and to center the pilot bit, and one bit to drill the pilot. i think I use a 3/32" bit for pilot...though I never remember things like that off the cuff...in any case, the 6" drill bits are very helpful in controlling the location of the new hole.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Posted 06-15-2020 09:23
    re: West's suggestion about the g-flex...while I use G-flex for some applications, the 105 resin w hardener, drips into the hole better, and consolidates the wood around the screw, in a way that g-flex does not. This is because the g-flex is thickened. When dribbling in 105 resin, the level of epoxy in the filled hole recedes after 15 min or so, as the resin soaks into and consolidates the beat-up hole.  You then just continue topping up the hole with the resin. I usually stop topping it up, so I am left with a small indentation, which helps lead the pilot into the hole later when drilling.

    Also, make sure the old holes did not go all the way through the keyframe, otherwise resin will come out the bottom of the keyframe. If they are drilled through, just put some masking tape over the bottom of the keyframe, at the punch through, and proceed as above.

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-15-2020 09:37
    Another possible remedy, which I have done, is to drill the holes all the way through, install T nuts from the bottom, and use machine screws from the top. That screw/hole  connection is durable.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-15-2020 11:21
    I too use West 105 to rebuild action frame screws. I wax the screws and put them in place for 24 hours. I do the same for stripped Steinway flange screws.

    When I have new or plugged action frame cleat, I use dry wall screws that are not self tapping. The thin threads and sharp edges make for better retention of wood strength. Wax em too and lightly press down and always turn backward when reinstalling wood screws to catch the thread before tightening them.

    Square head drive screws rock!

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Best Screws for Screwing Steinway Action Brackets to Key Frame?

    Member
    Posted 06-15-2020 13:54
    Thanks for the great tips everyone. I will get some of the West Systems 105 Epoxy. I did not know that it has a more liquid texture, which makes application much easier.

    ------------------------------
    Joe Burros
    Cell: 646-410-7174
    jbcello@gmail.com
    www.fmi-newengland.com
    ------------------------------