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Yamaha spring cords

  • 1.  Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-18-2019 17:13
    List,

    This may have been covered before, but I'm hoping for a quick answer.  Approximately when did Yamaha actually SOLVE the spring cord breakage problem?

    Question #2...there were some years when P-22's had a bass string breakage (premature) issue. I had to restring the bass on a 1993 P22 made in Thomaston. Does anyone know the extent of this issue? (I was informed by Schaff that there was a time period where Yamaha's scaling choices for this model was less than optimum. I just don't recall that they gave any specific span of years).

    Would welcome any input on this from those who know more and better.

    Pwg​

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 2.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-18-2019 19:25
    Peter,
    I, also had to restring the bass of a mid 90's P22.
    Roger





  • 3.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Posted 08-19-2019 07:42
    1988
    I have no input for the bass string question other than it being a high tension scale.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 4.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2019 09:55
    Jon,
    Thx. So 1988 is about when they changed to a more durable cord material?  Do you also happen to know when they changed from the butt plate design to the standard pinning design?

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 5.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2019 11:02
    We have several U1Es, purchased in 1989. The spring cords on pianos in practice rooms started breaking after 25 years. We replaced all of the hammer flanges (with new spring cords) on those pianos at that time. 

    Alan

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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
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  • 6.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Posted 08-19-2019 15:59
    Purchased in '89 but more than likely made a year or two earlier. What I heard or read was that by 1988 they were getting warranty work on the cords and opted to change material. Maybe someone with first-hand knowledge of this can chime in.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 7.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2019 11:33
    I encountered the P22 and especially the P202 from the early days when Yamaha took over the Everett factory.

    The P22's broke bass strings, but nothing like the P202's did. I observed the reason why: the waste length leading to the tuning pin was extremely short, especially for the lower row of tuning pins, and the wire approached the coil at a very steep angle, so it bound on the first bend of the coil. If the tuning pins had been angled back somewhat so the wire approached the pin at 90 degrees, there would have been no problem.

    Add in a bunch of "gospel damage" and I had a lot of job security.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 8.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2019 12:17
    Yes, I have encountered that lower pin row poor angulation issue numerous times. That will cause breakage even when otherwise properly designed. And such an EASY fix...3 - 4 degrees?

    Alan,

    So even as late as 1989 you've encountered cord breakage. Funny that I've never seen it on Kawai or any European verticals (except very old). 


    So, I'm trying to nail down this data (if possible) so as to better inform potential buyers of these pianos (as well as protect myself from giving bad advice). I typically warn them of these potential issues no matter what. It seems that the bass string issue (though sporadic) seems primarily in the American made pianos. 

    Schaff had no hard data on it. Just, if they're breaking replace them...duh.

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 9.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2019 14:03
    "Gospel damage" lol, I've seen that.

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    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI
    808-521-7129
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  • 10.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2019 17:12
    To my knowledge, they never did "solve" this issue of the hammer butt flange cords.   It's such a long standing issue it naturally leads one to believe that, since it doesn't manifest itself until long after the piano is out of warranty, they made a conscious decision to ignore it.

    We've all encountered very old pianos with intact spring cords, usually made of silk.  There are many more durable alternatives in this day and age.  When I replace these I use what's called .9 millimeter lift cord, which is made for miniblinds.   It's nylon strands inside a nylon sheath.  Quite strong and it's not subject to that "slow burn"  oxidation that degrades the polyester.  It has a diameter and appearance quite similar to the original cord.

    Another tip that some might find useful is apply acetone to the original stuff before you go to scrap it out of the channels in the flange.  This will turn it gummy and make it much easier to remove.  The acetone flashes off quite fast so only do about a dozen flanges at a time.  And use good ventilation.

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    Cecil Snyder
    Torrance CA
    310-542-7108
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  • 11.  RE: Yamaha spring cords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-19-2019 19:17
    Cecil,

    Do you do this even on the non-butt-plate flanges?  Do you de-pin, replace cord and re-install same flange?

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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