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boiling action parts

  • 1.  boiling action parts

    Member
    Posted 02-17-2019 09:58
      |   view attached
    this may explain once and for all the issue of frozen, verdigris action parts and why they smell like candles when heated or have a waxy appearance as others have mentioned in this thread

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    steinwaylogic00stei.pdf   1.17 MB 1 version


  • 2.  RE: boiling action parts

    Posted 02-17-2019 20:26
    Thank you for that.  I've downloaded it for the guys.  It possibly helps explain things.

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    Ted Rohde
    Central Illinois
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  • 3.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-17-2019 20:43
    James,

    Thank you!  It clearly answers the paraffin question. 

    Where did you find this?  It's great!  Contains the subtle hint that their pianos will keep on singing even without regular maintenance. 

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 4.  RE: boiling action parts

    Member
    Posted 02-17-2019 23:40
    during some of my deep searches on the internet i have come across some great publications long out of copyright but scanned for fair use . i think this was in the internet archives. you can also find some good materials using google play books. you never know what you will find and sometimes one thing opens the door to many other things. i have been doing extensive research on Chickering & Sons including a visit to the archives at the Museum of American History at the Smithsonian. At the present time I am hunting down a lead that stated 3-d stereograms (think viewmaster) where taken of the inside of the Chickering & Sons factory .

     i do think the verdigris is a result of the paraffin possibly getting heated up by the friction and getting drawn out into the wool reacting with the lanolin and wash chemicals as well as the center pins. tallow seems like something like bacon fat which gets waxy when cool but then goes liquid when heated up. sealing wood back in the day to prevent warping, cracking, movement makes sense. it has never been clear to me when i see the phrase dampproofed and waterproofed on the plates of pianos what exactly was used and where.

    although i have never experimented with it i wonder if there is a way to extract the paraffin out of the wood using warming or by using ultrasonic waves as in an ultrasonic parts cleaner. maybe i will conduct some experiments using some verdigris loaded action parts i have

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 5.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-18-2019 00:44
    Well, I guess the vegans will be happy to know it wasn't mutton fat.
    Btw, James, for your experiments; I've heard that white gas does a good job of dissolving paraffin. I understand it's used as camp stove fuel.

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    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI

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  • 6.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-18-2019 02:19
    I have a vague memory of someone using ether (outside!!) to soak Steinway flanges, getting the paraffin out.

    I've used a different approach for two Steinway M's belonging to non-professional musicians who just wanted them to play, and who weren't tempted to pay a lot of money for new parts. I replaced the wippen flanges, and also the hammer flanges, and then I rebushed the hammer shanks so I could keep the old shanks and hammers. It seemed likely to me that the grease or wax which had migrated into the shank bushings possibly had not gone much further, and that with new bushings it might take quite awhile for any remaining wax in the shanks (which I guess weren't boiled in paraffin) to migrate through, plus of course there were new center pins which had not been exposed to the grease. So far both jobs seem to have held up well.

    This presented a problem, because Steinway grand hammer flanges are sold only with the shanks, so now I have a nice new set of shanks, but no flanges to go with them. I'm hoping that some day I'll be replacing hammers, shanks, and flanges, without verdigris, and I'll be able to reuse the (unboiled) hammer flanges while tossing the shanks with their worn bushings, flattened knuckles ("rollers") and worn out hammers.It would be better if one could buy sets of just the hammer flanges to go with sets of new wippen flanges, because there are a lot of old Steinways with verdigris out there, and having some parts in inventory would be handy.

    The second piano had already had the hammers, shanks, and flanges replaced, so I didn't end up with TWO sets of brand new shanks and no flanges. The installation had been really crummy, but after lots of time spacing and traveling and filing and voicing I was able to get them usable.

    Both of these pianos were very seized up but had never been sprayed with anything. It shows how important it is that no one has sprayed lubricant into the actions, so that the only factor we need to fight is the boiled-in-paraffin flanges. Once someone has sprayed lubricant all over, the jack centers and balancier centers will also be thoroughly fouled with grease, and can only be thrown away.  I remember a seized action for a customer about to move to Hawaii. I used a "zapper" to free them up, telling the owner that she would need to replace the parts once she had finished her move, but maybe she could get some use from the piano first. That piano had been so thoroughly sprayed with lubricant that the parts were dark brown, and when I used the zpper, the oil boiled out of the flanges.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 7.  RE: boiling action parts

    Posted 02-18-2019 05:24
    Wouldn't the best be dry-cleaning fluid?

    Best wishes

    David P

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    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
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    +44 1342 850594





  • 8.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-18-2019 08:37
    Susan,

    It was Bob Bartnik (I'm not 100% sure on the last name) from deep in Virginia or some such place. He espoused the use of automotive starting fluid (the kind WITH ETHER) as a solvent. However, I don't recall him suggesting compressed air in the process. I found this out myself in experimenting. I described it on the other verdigris thread.

    If one has time on their hands, rebushing is a good way to go. I hate doing it so I won't unless getting paid very well for it. But if it was an historical restoration (precisely what the Steinway factory DOES NOT do), I would. 

    BTW Bob had lots of other good tips and tricks up his sleeve. I have a handout somewhere in my piles of handouts...

    Edit: Paraffin wax - Wikipedia.  Ether and benzene both dissolve paraffin wax. So dry cleaning fluid would probably work too.

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 9.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-18-2019 14:36
    Thanks, Peter

    I suppose being able to rebush a set of parts (or repin sets of parts) is one of the joys of being semi-retired. It makes good TV work, of an evening.

    I have a few ideas for improving my results when rebushing centers, but I need to scare up some free time to experiment with them. If they end up working, and if I practice them enough to get good and reasonably fast at them, a good world opens up: save old factory-original parts (which almost by definition fit), and especially I want to have stable friction results from center pinning so I can get the touch response really good, especially when playing softly. There was a thread awhile back where people who had carefully pinned to a certain friction checked a few weeks later and found that it didn't last. I'd really like to change that result.

    I'm amazed by how many people test a new piano by seeing how loud it will play, without once trying to see whether it will respond dependably and evenly when playing very softly.



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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 10.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-18-2019 17:26
    The paraffin we get today is a pretty pure substance, seemingly nonreactive. I wonder if what they used then had some impurities. The wiki article on paraffin wax says stearic acid was added to raise the melting point. That is apparently a mutton fat byproduct among other sources. So there could be truth in both the paraffin and the mutton fat stories, with the mutton component (stearic acid) being the causer of corrosion.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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  • 11.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-18-2019 21:36
    Susan,

    Maybe we could go into business selling fully  reconditioned original factory parts. Do you think there would be a market for it?  With the Steinway name laser engraved on each part.

    🤡

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 12.  RE: boiling action parts

    Member
    Posted 02-18-2019 23:36
    its an interesting idea to recondition the parts using the logo would probably be a trademark infringement. it takes an enormous amount of time to refurbish whippens but with the right tools/techniques/jigs maybe not.

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 13.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-19-2019 00:22
    Sets of re-bushed flanges may be strung on heavy music wire (#22+/-) to glue and size.


  • 14.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-19-2019 01:03
    Replacing the wippen flanges with new ones is relatively low cost and doesn't take a lot of time. Just pinning them on, some traveling and spacing. The flanges cost a lot less than the whole "repetitions" so that difference in price can be applied to the labor costs.

    Of course it's impossible if someone has sprayed lubricant, but many pianos, especially Steinway M's just seized up and sat there without "piano tech damage."

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 15.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-19-2019 00:58
    LOL. How should I label the bushing cloth? And the glue?

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 16.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-19-2019 08:59
    Very good question!  LOL! I'm not smart enough to answer it.

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 17.  RE: boiling action parts

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-19-2019 10:32
    And here I hoped that wiser heads could clue me in ....

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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