Pianotech

  • 1.  Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-18-2021 02:16
    It seems to me that the most effective transfer of energy to a piano string would be with hammers that are perfectly square to the hammer shanks.  Hammers that are canted or tilted to mate with the slanted strings of the tenor and bass (especially on smaller pianos) have a center of gravity that is away from their direction of travel and create strain on the hammer flange.  This causes stress and eventually looseness in the hammer shanks.

    Hammers that are square to their line of travel will strike each tenor and bass string at a different time or distance in their length.  What effect does this actually have.. that is, what effect would taking a single hammer in the bass or tenor section and reboring it square instead of canted have (in reality as opposed to some imagined effect)?

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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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  • 2.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Posted 01-18-2021 07:13
    Square to the shank is not as important as square to the string plane.  For both to happen, the bore distance has to be considered. Some pianos can't have both.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
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  • 3.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Posted 01-18-2021 09:12
    Actually, I always bore  without any tilt, as I like the sound better...simpler.  As to your question though, that would end up hitting 2 different strike points in the bichords and 3 if there were trichords...making for a noisy mess, I would think.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 4.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-19-2021 01:15
    Another important issue is the angle of the strings; with aggressively canted strings a squared and perpendicular travelling hammer will hit strings, perhaps on both sides of the unison if it isn't angled enough.

    But, as with square grands, this can be dealt with by shaving off corners.

    I would like to someday experiment with tossing on a few straight bored but otherwise similar hammers on an old piano to hear the difference (if any).

    It seems to me that a piano technology school should have a few of these type of experiments lying around.

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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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  • 5.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-18-2021 09:48
    Once again, I don't know which reply to hit, so I'll hit the first one. I made this semi-private video to explain something and actually ask a different question, but it may be useful for this discussion. Please to not be afraid to correct anything I said in the video as I was trying to understand something and not say anything that was 100% correct. 

    https://youtu.be/0BRc4ChhqwU

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    Maggie Jusiel, RPT
    Athens, WV
    (304)952-8615
    mags@timandmaggie.net
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  • 6.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-18-2021 12:13

    Blaine,

    Both you and Jon are correct in assuming the squareness of the strike angle and hammer core to shank angle to deliver the best energy transfer, but both miss the most important issue – center of oscillation.

    The loss of power transfer to the string and the strain on the flange is experienced when the tip of the hammer (string contact point) is not inertially balanced during contact. We all have experienced the "sting" in our hands when we hit a baseball that is too far out or too close to the "sweet spot". This sweet spot is the point on the bat (or hammer shank assembly) where the mass x speed is balanced on each side of the contact point – that is approximately 2/3 on a uniform rod. The logic is this; the outer regions of a bat are traveling faster than the inner (closer to the rotation point) portions of the bat. To balance the inertia, more mass is needed inward, toward the rotational point – because it is traveling slower. Less mass is needed toward the outer portions of contact because it is traveling faster. Physics 101



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    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
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  • 7.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Posted 01-20-2021 00:30
    Roger, so then are you saying the hammer shank must have more mass placed near the flange in order to balance out the mass of the hammer felt and core? Is that why grand hammer shanks flare out near the center pin from the shape of a cylinder to the shape of a rectangle?

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    Cobrun Sells
    cobrun94@yahoo.com
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  • 8.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-20-2021 11:58

    Blaine,

    Both you and Jon are correct in assuming the squareness of the strike angle and hammer core to shank angle to deliver the best energy transfer, but both miss the most important issue – center of oscillation.

    The loss of power transfer to the string and the strain on the flange is experienced when the tip of the hammer (string contact point) is not inertially balanced during the hammer travel. We all have experienced the "sting" in our hands when we hit a baseball that is too far out or too close to the "sweet spot". This sweet spot is the point on the bat (or hammer shank assembly) where the mass x speed is balanced on each side of the contact point – that is approximately 2/3 on a uniform rod. The logic is this; the outer regions of a bat are traveling faster than the inner (closer to the rotation point) portions of the bat. To balance the inertia, more mass is needed inward, toward the rotational point – because it is traveling slower. Less mass is need toward the outer point of contact because it is traveling faster. Physics 101

    Cobrun,

    No. the added mass of the shank near the flange has nothing to do with the "balance inertia", as I defined it – although it exasperates it.  The added mass is simply a strength (stiffness) issue. If a shank is uniformly constructed, as evident on the hammer end, it would be too weak to sustain the necessary acceleration applied at the knuckle.

    Also, my post was not comprehensive in explaining "center of oscillation" (aka, center of percussion). I would first state that the hammer/shank assemblies of both the upright and grand piano are far from obtaining the balanced inertia because of the "stuff" the hammer/shank assembly must negotiate around – in grands, the pinblock, in uprights the damper assembly.  Certainly, the construction of a typical "clapper" of a bell is evident of balanced inertia. Notice that some well-balanced clappers have a small added mass located beyond the spherical mass that strikes the bell.  This added mass is needed to balance the inertia on both sides of the contact point of the clapper. If one were to calculate the mass from the lower half (hanging bell) from the upper half (including the shaft) of the clapper contact point you would realize that there would be an inertia imbalance without that smaller added weight. Remember, the shaft is part of the balanced inertia equation.

    Skipping over added minutia; to affect the ideal balanced inertia of a piano hammer/shank assembly, it would require a certain added weight on the outer portion of the hammer core center line and below (grand hammer description) the shank. The current typical hammer/shank designs cause the center of inertia to be traveling, not at 90°, which produces the maximum transfer of power, but approximately 5° off perpendicular. Additionally, that balanced offset sends a shock wave back down the shank where it is reflected back and forth between the hammer and flange. That is the "sting" I described with the baseball bat.  This is why high-speed photography shows the hammer hitting the string several times when struck.

    P.S. Wessel Nickel & Gross hammer shanks greatly reduce this off balance phenonium.



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    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
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  • 9.  RE: Educate the ignorant: squaring piano hammers?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-21-2021 16:18

    I wasn't referring to the transfer of power to the string, only the effective travel  of the mass of the hammer toward the string.
    I tuned an old upright today and you could see hammers visibly wobbling around on a blow instead of moving straight toward the string.

    Fine tuning the center of mass of a piano hammer assembly, whether upright or grand is another issue entirely (though a valid one).

    I don't recall anyone actually addressing "tuning" an upright hammer assembly (hammer, shank and butt) to get more effective transfer of power to the string.  Is this even possible?



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    Blaine Hebert
    Duarte CA
    626-795-5170
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