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Flight training

  • 1.  Flight training

    Posted 04-20-2019 14:04
    For those of you who have a pilot's license and fly regularly:

    Do any of you incorporate this into your business, or is it purely recreational (i.e. hobby) for you?

    I've long wanted to learn to fly. Contemplating whether it's worth the expense (except for fun).

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-20-2019 14:11
    There's a very easy answer to this. As you're able to tune unequal temperaments successfully, and other tuners elsewhere are not able or not willing to do so, you should be able to claim as a tax deductable expense travel to places where your skills are in demand :-) ;-)

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 3.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 05:08
    Peter, talk to one of our N. Michigan chapter members, Bill van Effen.  He's a licensed pilot and instructor and former band director.  billvaneffen@yahoo.com.

    ------------------------------
    Mike Kurta, RPT
    N. Michigan chapter
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 10:53
    Peter,
    I've sent an email to your pianodoctor57@gmail.com address.
    Scott


    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 14:14

    OMG, I would love to have a few customers in a far-off town and fly there to work.  Would need to get a pilot's license first though.  I don't pretend that it would ever totally pay for itself, but if I wanted to take an overnight trip it would be a great way to help pay for the flight hours, combining work and pleasure.  I seem to remember a technician who flew to a place in the Alaska panhandle once a year to do this sort of thing.






  • 6.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 15:03
    Thank you for the replies both public and private. The info you have presented is fully in line with what I was told at the little local airport here where they teach flying.

    Yes, it would be cool to have the ability to do this. I guess from a practical perspective though (unless I was actually having my abilities requested in far away places by significantly wealthy people for whom cost is no object), it just does not make sense to make that kind of investment (unless I had more money than I knew what to do with...which I don't [at this time]).

    On the other hand though I was told that I could just show up and request a lesson (for a couple hundred bucks) and an instructor would take me up and let me fly the thing. That would still be cool.

    And then there's flight simulators...😁

    OT...BTW, what prompted this was the fact that I can buy ethanol-free gasoline here at this facility. This is THE BEST stuff to use in your lawnmower, snowblower, trimmer, chain saw...etc. Virtually eliminates the need for small engine servicing. It's the ethanol that messes everything up as it sits there for long unused periods.

    You can now buy this at the hardware store for $25-$40 per gallon. Or try to find it locally with a Google search. Much cheaper from the pump IF you can find it. $4.50/gal.  Cheap insurance.

    On leaving I saw the sign saying: "LEARN TO FLY HERE!"  Oh, the power of advertising. I turned around and went in.

    Pwg


    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 15:55
    "On the other hand though I was told that I could just show up and request a lesson (for a couple hundred bucks) and an instructor would take me up and let me fly the thing. That would still be cool."

    Famous last words. That's what my wife thought I would do--take a lesson or two and "get it out of my system." Just keep in mind you may not be able to quit....

    --
    Scott Cole, Registered Piano Technician and Doctor of Music
    Serving Southern Oregon and Northern California
    (541)601-9033







  • 8.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 20:29
    👍  Hmmmm!

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 16:18
    If you can demonstrate that you've got a piano to tune at the end of a flight then you can get the cost of your flights deducted from tax, even at a loss. Charge your normal rates and then a few customers might bring demand together to make flights worthwhile.

    The trouble with ethanol particularly is that it rots fuel lines.

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 10.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 17:13
    In the mid 1980's  and early 90's I routinely used to fly to the island of Nantucket a then 15-20 minute flight from Cape  Cod in a Cessna 7 seater along with contractors working on island I scheduled 5 tunings a day  often in close travel proximity and I figured that the first tuning covered the expenses for the day  roundtrip air fare and  rental car once on island, at one time I think I had 60 clients on the island  so 12 trips between early May  and September  I did occasionally go back over the winter to do day long regulations etc. As many of you know the weather on the island can be fickle such that at the end of the day as the fog rolls in there's always the chance that the airport will close and  the options are a much longer and infrequent ferry ride then a 3 hour trip, this happened often enough   that  after going over there for  several years I decided to pass on continuing, and by that time I had more  than enough work  in Greater Boston.

    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    South Burlington VT
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 18:40
    The feds have a mileage rate we use for car expenses. Is there one for private planes?

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 20:36
    Right you are David. I have had carbs rebuilt too many times and thrown away otherwise good machines that when I learned the "dirty little secret" I was both happy and shocked that it took me this long to find out. All my machines run better and are almost maintenance free.

    Unfortunately I have to regularly see that sign: "LEARN TO FLY HERE!" in order to get the stuff.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-21-2019 22:37
    It's an expensive hobby. If you want to maintain a private pilot's license your will need to remain what's called "Current" (practice, practice, practice). That means flying often. If you just want the occasional thrill of flying, just go with an instructor. They get you hooked by letting you take off. Heck, the plane takes off by itself once you get airspeed. It's easy to take off, the trick is in the landing. Landing is where the instructor comes in handy. No big expenses just a way to burn thru money occasionally.  Keep it straight and level...

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-22-2019 07:44
    To the hidden OT thread about gas:  I live in ethanol country.  But I have not used it because it is not recommended by my car manufacturer.  They don't recommend it for the very reasons brought up here.  They recommend Top Tier ethanol free gas.  Fortunately I have the option at certain gas stations to buy either regular or premium Top Tier ethanol free gas.  Regular seems to run better than Premium.  The octave rating I believe retards the spark ignition and Premium advances it.  The newer engines will compensate for the difference, but Regular still seems to run better.  And Regular is lower in cost than Premium:  $3 versus $3.25 per gallon.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-22-2019 08:29
    Tim, that is truly ironic.
    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-22-2019 08:31
    Like a boat...a hole in the water in which you throw money.  But if I had a really good business need for it...

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-22-2019 20:00
    Peter,
    There is a lot to recommend flight training and getting a general aviation pilot's certificate. Of course, there is the thrill of flight, but also the sense of satisfaction whether you complete your training, a flight test or a successful trip that you have planned and executed. Besides the flying itself, you will sharpen your math skills, learn more about physics, keep better track of your health for those flight physicals, improve your communication skills, dive into weather systems - how they behave and what to watch out for - and, if you fly on instruments and land in low conditions, it will exercise your pucker factor . These are just a few side benefits.
    It is a lot more expensive now than when Priscilla and I did our flight training in the 1970's, but we have used it extensively in our piano service work. We live just north of Austin, Texas. When we were very active in concert service, we would fly up to Fort Worth (Meacham Field) to take care of the pianos for the Van Cliburn Foundation, both the competitions every 4 years and the ongoing concert series. We would also fly back and forth when we were the concert technicians for the Dallas Symphony Orchestra (using Love Field - "keep your speed up; there's a Southwest 737 on your tail"). Each was an hour and a half flight as opposed to a three hour car trip. An added benefit was the assurance that we would not be pulled over for speeding up the Interstate. As a matter of fact, using the plane, we would go as fast as we could. That could be a financial advantage if your foot is heavy when driving. We would keep a car at each of those airports at the FBO (Fixed Base Operator) parking lot, grab our tools from the plane, hop in the car and be at the concert hall in minutes.
    Speaking of finances, if you do enough flying for business (all expensable using actual expenses), there is also a formula that the IRS will accept (check with your accountant) if you calculate the Percentage of Total Hours flown for Business, then figure the Percentage of Total Hours flown in Training and Proficiency (dual instruction, flight tests, even practice flights), you can multiply theT&P percentage by the business percentage and expense out that end percentage of all your expenses. Our calculations always turned out to be around 99.7% to be allowable expense. That rounds up to all of our airplane expenses being a business expense for tax purposes. Of course, we did not do very much "flying for fun" although all the flying was fun.
    The plane came in handy when we did service/warranty calls for manufacturers throughout Texas and the surrounding states. We could fly into the smallest towns if they had an airport and a lot of them do - you would be surprised. The clients were always happy to drive out to the airport to pick us up; it was something unusual. The service call could be completed and we would be back home that evening rather than drive for hours each way and have to spend the night in a motel.
    When we did our hands-on classes at annual PTG conventions, we could pack up our tools and equipment in the plane and fly to the event without having to shut down our shop a week early to ship our tools and wait a week afterwards for our shipped tools to arrive back home.
    One of the nicest things about flying yourself, is that the flight will never leave early or without you. You can imagine the time saved by not having to arrive extra early, check in at the airline desk and go through airport security. And there is no problem with bringing any of your tools onto your own plane!
    The only disadvantage we have experienced is really dangerous weather. The airlines might be flying but we have our personal guidelines about flying in thunderstorm systems (don't do it). If an appointment has to be cancelled, the customers were very understanding and we just rescheduled for a nicer day.
    If this post has a picture associated with the sender on the left, you can see Pris standing by the tail of our Cessna 182. It is a custom paint job that let the customers know when we arrived. It was a great conversation starter with clients.
    Maybe this was more information than you wanted, Peter, but it may get you thinking about the uncommon benefits of being a private pilot.
    Best regards,
    Joel Rappaport

    ------------------------------
    Priscilla Rappaport
    Rappaport's Piano Workshop
    Round Rock TX
    512-255-0440
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-22-2019 21:22
    Hi, Joel!

    I hope that all is very well for you and Pris.

    I've been hoping that you might speak up on this topic.

    While I am sure that there are other technicians who use flying as a
    part of their business, other than yourself, Pris, and Bob Cloutier, I
    haven't known any that have so tightly integrated it into their work.

    Thanks very much for bringing your experience and expertise to the table.

    Kind regards.

    Horace

    On 4/22/2019 5:00 PM, Priscilla Rappaport via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > Peter,
    > There is a lot to recommend flight training and getting a general aviation pilot's certificate. Of course, there is the thrill of flight, but also the sense of satisfaction whether you complete your training, a flight test or a successful trip that you have planned and executed. Besides the flying itself, you will sharpen your math skills, learn more about physics, keep better track of your health for those flight physicals, improve your communication skills, dive into weather systems - how they behave and what to watch out for - and, if you fly on instruments and land in low conditions, it will exercise your pucker factor . These are just a few side benefits.
    > It is a lot more expensive now than when Priscilla and I did our flight training in the 1970's, but we have used it extensively in our piano service work. We live just north of Austin, Texas. When we were very active in concert service, we would fly up to Fort Worth (Meacham Field) to take care of the pianos for the Van Cliburn Foundation, both the competitions every 4 years and the ongoing concert series. We would also fly back and forth when we were the concert technicians for the Dallas Symphony Orchestra (using Love Field - "keep your speed up; there's a Southwest 737 on your tail"). Each was an hour and a half flight as opposed to a three hour car trip. An added benefit was the assurance that we would not be pulled over for speeding up the Interstate. As a matter of fact, using the plane, we would go as fast as we could. That could be a financial advantage if your foot is heavy when driving. We would keep a car at each of those airports at the FBO (Fixed Base Operator) parking
    > lot, grab our tools from the plane, hop in the car and be at the concert hall in minutes.
    > Speaking of finances, if you do enough flying for business (all expensable using actual expenses), there is also a formula that the IRS will accept (check with your accountant) if you calculate the Percentage of Total Hours flown for Business, then figure the Percentage of Total Hours flown in Training and Proficiency (dual instruction, flight tests, even practice flights), you can multiply theT&P percentage by the business percentage and expense out that end percentage of all your expenses. Our calculations always turned out to be around 99.7% to be allowable expense. That rounds up to all of our airplane expenses being a business expense for tax purposes. Of course, we did not do very much "flying for fun" although all the flying was fun.
    > The plane came in handy when we did service/warranty calls for manufacturers throughout Texas and the surrounding states. We could fly into the smallest towns if they had an airport and a lot of them do - you would be surprised. The clients were always happy to drive out to the airport to pick us up; it was something unusual. The service call could be completed and we would be back home that evening rather than drive for hours each way and have to spend the night in a motel.
    > When we did our hands-on classes at annual PTG conventions, we could pack up our tools and equipment in the plane and fly to the event without having to shut down our shop a week early to ship our tools and wait a week afterwards for our shipped tools to arrive back home.
    > One of the nicest things about flying yourself, is that the flight will never leave early or without you. You can imagine the time saved by not having to arrive extra early, check in at the airline desk and go through airport security. And there is no problem with bringing any of your tools onto your own plane!
    > The only disadvantage we have experienced is really dangerous weather. The airlines might be flying but we have our personal guidelines about flying in thunderstorm systems (don't do it). If an appointment has to be cancelled, the customers were very understanding and we just rescheduled for a nicer day.
    > If this post has a picture associated with the sender on the left, you can see Pris standing by the tail of our Cessna 182. It is a custom paint job that let the customers know when we arrived. It was a great conversation starter with clients.
    > Maybe this was more information than you wanted, Peter, but it may get you thinking about the uncommon benefits of being a private pilot.
    > Best regards,
    > Joel Rappaport
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Priscilla Rappaport
    > Rappaport's Piano Workshop
    > Round Rock TX
    > 512-255-0440
    > ------------------------------
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 04-20-2019 14:04
    > From: Peter Grey
    > Subject: Flight training
    >
    > For those of you who have a pilot's license and fly regularly:
    >
    > Do any of you incorporate this into your business, or is it purely recreational (i.e. hobby) for you?
    >
    > I've long wanted to learn to fly. Contemplating whether it's worth the expense (except for fun).
    >
    > Pwg
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Peter Grey
    > Stratham NH
    > 603-686-2395
    > pianodoctor57@gmail.com <pianodoctor57@gmail.com>
    > ------------------------------
    >
    >
    > Reply to Sender : https://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&SenderKey=7f82fa93-9f57-4d0f-b024-9756ee077fbe&MID=702192&MDATE=756%253e459477&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
    >
    > Reply to Discussion : https://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&MID=702192&MDATE=756%253e459477&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
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  • 19.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-23-2019 11:35
    Edited by Peter Grey 04-23-2019 11:38
    Joel,

    Thanks so much for this. You're right, I was definitely not expecting it. Wow!

    Edit: I guess the other part of the equation is how to go about charging for the unique service capability...

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 04-23-2019 12:52
    I guess the other part of the equation is how to go about charging for the unique service capability...
    Peter,
    Here you have to be careful. Unless you have a commercial pilot's certificate, you can't directly charge for your flying. You would have to quote "for your piano services" enough to cover some of your transportation expenses, just as your tuning fee covers your car expenses - both fixed (expenses that you have to pay regardless of hours driven, like insurance) and variable (gas, oil changes). We always considered that the service trips in the plane would count toward our currency so we did not have to charge enough to cover all expenses. There was lots of flying in instrument conditions that we would have to complete anyway, so we could use these service trips to cover that.
    By the way, I would encourage you to complete your training at least to the private pilot certificate level. After that, if you have developed the expanded business enough, an instrument rating would be a very good idea so that you could fly in "iffy" conditions with confidence and get constant, helpful monitoring by air traffic control.
    Joel

    ------------------------------
    Joel Rappaport
    Rappaport's Piano Workshop
    Round Rock TX
    512-255-0440
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 30 days ago
    From FAR 61.113
    b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:
     1)The flight is only incidental that business or employment ; and
    2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire

    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 30 days ago
    From FAR 61.113
    b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:
    1)The flight is only incidental that business or employment ; and
    2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation or hire

    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole, RPT

    An excellent point, Scott. Back to Peter's question "I guess the other part of the equation is how to go about charging for the unique service capability..."
    Scott, I assume you use an airplane for some of your service calls.  Do you put transportation expenses as a line item on your invoices?
    Joel



    ------------------------------
    Joel Rappaport
    Rappaport's Piano Workshop
    Round Rock TX
    512-255-0440
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 29 days ago
    Joel,

    So the "service fee/tuning fee" would simply be significantly higher (obviously) than a standard local one. This is how I am reading what you are saying, rather than itemizing travel expenses separately from the service. Am I correct?

    So if a client who has a vacation home 300 miles away and wanted me to take care of the piano there and they want it NOW, I would not say: "Okay but it will cost $800 for the flights and $325 for the piano work", but rather "the cost will be $1125 for the piano work in East Overshoe". (All figures are off the cuff speculation...not suggestive of anything actual). Do I have this correct?

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 29 days ago
    Hi Priscilla,
    I have not flown anywhere in order to service a piano. However, I was asked if I wanted to tune a bunch of pianos out in the desert of eastern Oregon/northeast California. So far nothing's been arranged.

    Many stars would have to align for it to work out: weather, plane availability (I'm a renter, not an owner), maintenance. Did I say weather? We have many weather challenges in the mountains that can complicate things: in the winter, freezing levels are low but we have to fly high to get over mountains, so there's a big risk of icing. We also have valley fog. In the summer there's T-storms and smoke, which has been pretty bad the last few summers. Then there's the issue of bringing every possible tool and getting from small airports to the customers.

    Sure, it would be great to "fly & tune" but I'm not counting on it anytime soon. As far as charging, I'm not sure what I would do. I assume that every situation is different. Plane owners have different expenses than renters. The person with a 152 may have to charge differently than someone with a Cirrus.
    Scott

    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 29 days ago
    Scott,
    Correct on the billing, remembering that those numbers are fictional. One reason is that we have had the experience that we quoted an out of town service and mentioned the transportation charges separately (and this would go for flying OR driving). The piano teacher with whom we were corresponding agreed, then set up six service calls for each of us (we normally would plan three each on a travel day) to "share the transportation costs" among all the piano owners.  We worked constantly that day until after 10pm. So now we calculate a fair price for service and transportation per service call. We never recover all of our expenses (especially considering the fixed costs) but at least our flying does not cost as much as if it were a hobby. In your case you would definitely consider renter's insurance.
    Luckily, the mid-South is much more advantageous to flying around except for the thunderstorms and tornadoes that just came through yesterday; so we also have our "weather moments." We have flown over the Appalachians and the Rockies (or through passes on Victor airways) and have an oxygen system we use when we have to stay up at altitude. In your part of the country, you really have to know the weather patterns and how to get around them. Chats with experienced local pilots would be both helpful and fascinating.  Good luck!

    Joel

    ------------------------------
    Joel Rappaport
    Rappaport's Piano Workshop
    Round Rock TX
    512-255-0440
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 12 days ago
    I'm thinking about getting a pilots license soon. Not sure if I'd want to go to the airlines down the road or not. It I did, I'd do the piano stuff on the side.

    ------------------------------
    Lucas Brookins
    Janesville WI
    608-931-5863
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 11 days ago
    Joel,
    I know this is a piano forum, but since you mentioned oxygen, I had a question since I've been looking at systems (many airways and approaches over 10,000' around here). What do you guys use? I was looking seriously at the Mountain High demand system. It's kind of expensive, though it should save $$ in the long run with higher efficiency and fewer ox refills. I've also looked at the Precise Flight demand conservers, but they seem overpriced to me. No choices of how to refill a tank around here--the FBO is it. There are also the cheaper systems sold at Sporty's etc. I've called all the welding supply and medical places but no one will fill it. Any advice?
    thanks,
    Scott

    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole, RPT
    rvpianotuner.com
    Talent, OR
    (541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Flight training

    Posted 7 days ago
    Edited by Priscilla Rappaport 7 days ago
      |   view attached
    Scott,
    I just got back to looking at this part of the computer and saw your question. We have the 4-place SkyOx tank & regulator with four masks. I was amazed that wearing the mask and using our headsets/mikes, there is no muffling of sound. ATC reported "loud and clear" on our transmissions. Cannulas are available which are used in the nostrils only and that may be more comfortable.
    Aviation oxygen is the only kind that should be used, not even medical oxygen. As I understand it, aviation oxygen has a very low moisture content which is important as you change altitude - going high is why you have the system, right? This is necessary so the moisture does not slowly freeze in the tubing and cut off the oxygen supply without your noticing it. And yes, usually the FBO is the only place around to get that type of O2.
    Also, if you use the system just now and then, there may be leakage from the tank and you might have to fill the tank before a trip anyway. We always checked the tank levels before a trip.
    http://www.mypilotstore.com has some other, similar systems. . I am not familiar with the other system you mention.
    There is even a mask for your assistant.....

    Joel
    Aerox Canine Oxygen Mask
    Mypilotstore remove preview
    Aerox Canine Oxygen Mask
    Aerox Canine Oxygen Mask by Aerox MSK-DS1 - Aerox canine oxygen mask. Certified up to 25,000 Ft. and fits a variety of breeds.
    View this on Mypilotstore >



    ------------------------------
    Joel Rappaport
    Rappaport's Piano Workshop
    Round Rock TX
    512-255-0440
    ------------------------------