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Great upright needed

  • 1.  Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-24-2019 11:36
    I am helping a client find a premium upright piano, preferably new. So far, we are considering the Yamaha YUS5, the Bosendorfer 130, the Steingraeber 138 and the Bluthner "S" (145 cm). If anyone has either personal experience or constructive input about any one of these, or any other high-end upright we should add to the list, please let me know (on these lists, or privately).

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-24-2019 11:56
    Sauter.


    ------------------------------
    [Gene] [Nelson] [RPT]
    [Sacramento Valley Chapter]
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-24-2019 12:32
    Thanks, Gene. You are the second tech to recommend Sauter. Do you have experience with any particular model? It looks like their top-of-the-line is the "Master Class" 130.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-24-2019 12:53
    https://amp.dw.com/en/nils-frahm-and-the-worlds-tallest-piano/a-19295331

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-24-2019 14:16
    Interesting thought, Larry, but don't think it would fit in a condo. ;-]

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-24-2019 14:06
    Just recently helped the Universities performance venue acquire a Sauter master class 130 - I believe it is the 51"
    Had the chance to play it in the shop I sometimes work at alongside Steingraber, Yamaha, Baldwin.
    The Steingraber and Sauter are both fabulous pianos - the Steingraber may have a slight advantage on exotic veneers but they both sound and play great. Maybe the larger Steingrabers have slightly darker tone color.
    Sauter is a bit less expensive.
    This piano I got at a discount as the store was closing.
    Its not the artsy Peter Maly type, just high gloss black poly that looks like a standard upright.
    What was great about it was that the piano displaced an aging Boston in the artists dressing room so no a visiting artist can practice on a quality piano and the Sauter action performs like a grand because of the jack return spring - a wonderful warm up piano.
    Craftsmanship is awsome.
    If your client is interested in more artdeco styles, Sauter has some very unique Peter Maly designs - a but out of my league however but beautiful.
    So overall I perfer Sauter just because quality wise its so similar to Steingraber but less expensive.

    ------------------------------
    [Gene] [Nelson] [RPT]
    [Sacramento Valley Chapter]
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-24-2019 14:18
    Wow, Gene, this is just the kind of input I am looking for! Sounds like the MC 130 needs to be on the list. Thanks so much.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-24-2019 14:17
    I tuned a Bosendorfer 130 upright recently. It was as satisfying as a grand and one could certainly do house concerts respectably on it. Nothing short of superb.

    Best wishes

    David P

    --
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    David Pinnegar, B.Sc., A.R.C.S.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    +44 1342 850594





  • 9.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-24-2019 14:21
    David,

    The last time I heard a Bosie 130 was decades ago. It was the most impressive upright (in current manufacture) I had heard up to that point in time. Then I heard a Steingraeber. They are definitely in the same class.

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-24-2019 23:52
    I happen to own a YUS1 and I rarely come across an upright, of any brand or size, that compares to it. Of course, it's mine so I'm so a bit prejudiced and also deep into making it the best it can be, but just the same... If the YUS5 is of the same caliber, (only taller), as the YUS1 then it gets my vote. 

    I didn't know that Bösendorfer, or Bluthner for that matter, even made an upright. I'd love to experience one someday. 

    Not that familiar with Steingraeber, but the Sauter's I service are all be really nice.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-25-2019 06:03
    I had a Sauter upright that came through my shop a few years ago. A very nice piano but the only drawback was the height of the keys. You almost needed to play standing up.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 06:20
    Jon,

    Had someone replaced the casters?

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-25-2019 07:27
    Original casters.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
    http://www.pianocapecod.com
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 09:34
    Hmmm... definitely something to be on the lookout for. Sounds like an adjustable bench might be advisable. Were the pedals within a normal range above the floor?

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 06:30
    Good to have your impression of the YUS that you know so well, Geoff. I am confident that the YUS5 is a fine piano. The SU7 is apparently Yamaha's top-of-the-line upright. It will be interesting to see how it compares with more expensive European uprights.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 09:48
    I will up front admit a bias here because of my internship at Steingraeber & Söhne so naturally I gravitate towards recommending that but with reason. I've had the opportunity to tour Steinway, Blüthner, Steingraeber and Bösendorfer.  All four make superior pianos, each with their own unique take. Blüthner & Steingraeber impressed me with the limited use of power & automated tools, most of the work done by hand. Steingraeber appealed to me because of its small size and family atmosphere.  They produce around 40 uprights & 70 grands a year and are open to trying new ideas such as the Phoenix agraffe bridge system and carbon fiber soundboard.

    Another innovative feature available with upright models 122, 130 & 138 is the Steingraeber-Ferro-Magnet Action which gives repetition speed comparable to a grand.  Having had hands on experience with the building of a Steingraeber, your customer would have a truly world class instrument should they choose to select a Steingraeber piano.

    Jim Fariss, RPT
      Black Forest Piano



  • 17.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 10:02
    Jim,

    I am personally partial towards Steingreaber as well. Should be interesting to see what this client, an accomplished performer, prefers. Of all the uprights I have gotten MSRPs on so far, Steingreaber is the second highest in cost, behind Bösendorfer.

    Do you know if Steingraeber's magnetic action is similar to Seiler's?

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 10:09
      |   view attached
    Hi Alan,

    I went to the NAMM convention this year and was impressed with the Mason & Hamlin. I've attached a picture. The piano has the WNG parts and PianoDisc player. Don't know if that makes a difference, but I liked the piano. I think if you're looking at the high end models, about any brand will be good.

    Richard West

    PS It was my first visit to NAMM. What a show!!!


    ------------------------------
    Richard West
    Oro Valley AZ
    520-395-0916
    440richard@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 10:13
    Richard, 

    You are the first party to recommend Mason & Hamlin other than dealers of same with whom I have communicated. We will check them out.

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 10:21
    Alan, 

    I'll be interested hearing the final choice and the reasons for the choice. I should add that my "recommendation" is only based on what I saw at NAMM, for what that's worth. I haven't worked on current production Masons.

    Richard








  • 21.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 10:25
    Duly noted, Richard. The client's decision will be made based on tone and touch, purely from the player's perspective. She is counting on me to provide her with candidates that are known to be technically excellent.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 23:29
    My understating is Steingraeber invented the magnetic action or at the very least, patented some specific part of it.  I would think all the uprights that incorporate that work more or less the same.




  • 23.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-25-2019 09:25
    I saw the new Seiler at the PTG convention.. pretty nice upright. Great fit and finish. The magnetic action seemed to make repetition faster.  Nice piano. Have no real experience with them, just thought they were very nice.

    ------------------------------
    Jeffrey Gegner
    Tipton IN
    765-860-5900
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-25-2019 09:31
    I've heard good things about that magnetic action, Jeffrey. We'll look into it.

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-26-2019 01:36
    Best vertical I've ever seen is the Fandrich 45 inch piano built by Del and Darrell. If you can find one...
    Only vertical piano I ever saw that actually played and sounded like a grand (as opposed to just a big-sounding upright -- there is a difference). I consider myself lucky to service one in my area and have told the customer that if they ever consider disposing of it to let me know. 

    Keith Akins, RPT
    Piano Technologist
    715/775-0022 Mon-Sat 9a-9p
    Find me on LinkedIn





  • 26.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-26-2019 08:49
    I'm a fan of the Schimmel upright. They have three lines of uprights, but if you're going for the best then go with a Schimmel C130, or C120. I've never felt such a consistent touch, and the bass could challenge some smaller grands to a fight on the playground...

    ------------------------------
    Hannah Beckett
    Reston VA
    910-231-3595
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-26-2019 08:53
    That's really good to know, Hannah. I have serviced some mid-sized Schimmel uprights and found them to be very good, but not necessarily sensational. Another tech PM'd me recommending Schimmel's high-end uprights, so on the list they go!

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-29-2019 12:54
    Hannah,

    I want to see that playground fight! The Schimmel C130 is now on the list (...and is one of the more moderately priced German uprights).

    Thanks,

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-29-2019 06:53
    Keith A. wrote: "Best vertical I've ever seen is the Fandrich 45 inch piano built by Del and Darrell. If you can find one...
    Only vertical piano I ever saw that actually played and sounded like a grand (as opposed to just a big-sounding upright -- there is a difference)." 

    Can you possibly describe what sonic qualities you find that distinguish between and upright and a grand? I presume you are comparing two instruments of similar size (string length, soundboard area, etc.).


    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-29-2019 18:24
    Hi Keith,

    I, too, have heard and played some Fandrich 45" uprights that were truly outstanding. Thanks for adding them to the mix!

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-30-2019 00:23
    Hope I am not out of order here !!!!!!

    Hasn't been released in America yet but ready to ship....... the new design Wertheim/Fandrich WF125

    UPDATE PRESS RELEASE  20/1/19

    Piano maker Wertheim has partnered with Delwin Fandrich to introduce a new series of innovative, upright pianos. Described as "an upright piano that plays like a grand piano," these Wertheim/Fandrich instruments are astounding pianists with their quality of sound and overall design. 

    One of the goals of the new piano project was to improve upon the stability of the upright. Wertheim/Fandrich series pianos are built with a massive solid hardwood beam at their bottom-reinforcing the traditionally weakest part of the upright piano's architecture. The skeleton of the Wertheim Fandrich uses traditional mortise and tenon construction, creating sturdy and seamless framework that houses the inter workings of the instrument. The string frame is also engineered from an entirely new design. Its massive bracing works perfectly with the skeleton to reinforce the strength and stability of this model. This inventive technique also serves to improve the tuning stability and tone of the instrument. 

    Developed over years of analysis and testing, all Wertheim/Fandrich pianos feature an impedance controlled soundboard. Their state of the art Impendance bar (or "Z-bar") is perfectly crafted to manage precisely how the soundboard reacts to different notes as they are played. This feature eases the transition from bass to tenor, creating a continuous and well-balanced sound across every key. His unmatched layout is so unique that Delwin Fandrich was even granted a U.S. patent for his blueprints. 

    Each Wertheim Fandrich is fitted with brass damper barrels within the bass. While many pianos are made with wooden damper barrels, the use of brass allows for improved damper functions and control when the pianist is performing. 

    When purchasing a piano, artists have the option of choosing their own hammer specifications. The German custom hammers can be made with either Weikert felt or Abel natural felt for a richer tone, or Werzen felt or FFW felt for a brighter sound .

    Before shipment, trained professional technicians closely inspect each piano ensuring the elevated reputation of Wertheim pianos to retain their well-earned integrity within the industry. Boasting a "rich European tone, and silky smooth playing action," these pianos are of the highest quality, serving as an investment in your future.

    Wertheim Piano originated in Frankfurt, Germany where founder Hugo Wertheim then migrated his business to Melbourne, Austrailia in 1875. These instruments are famous for their ability to stay properly tuned for long periods of time with low maintenance requirements.

    Delwin Fandrich possesses over 50 years of experience in designing pianos, and has worked with many famous international piano brands.

    Regards John Martin




    ------------------------------
    [John] [Martin] Mr]
    [Managing Director and Business Owner]
    [Wertheim Piano]
    [Melbourne] [Vic]
    [+61 418 350124]
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-30-2019 00:40
    Hi John,

    Always glad to learn about what Del is up to. Looking forward to hearing the WF125!

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-30-2019 06:30
    John M. wrote about the new Wertheim/Fandrich WF125 upright piano:  "...massive solid hardwood beam at their bottom-reinforcing the traditionally weakest part of the upright piano's architecture."

    Could you please expand on a description and nature of the "...massive solid hardwood beam at their bottom..."? What is it, where is it and what does it do?


    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-31-2019 20:25
    Hi Terrence , Thanks for your question . I have forwarded your question to Del.

    Regards John




    Wertheim Piano International
    Level 3, 480 Collins St, Melbourne VIC, 3000 Australia
    M +61 (0) 418 350124   T +61 (0) 3 86106302
    WeChat ID: WertheimPianos






  • 35.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-29-2019 06:55
    Alan E. mentioned a few high-end uprights. Does anyone have handy purchase price info on any of these pianos? I think a new Steinway K-52 goes for somewhere in the $25K to $30K range (I think!!!).

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-29-2019 12:46
    Terry,

    We are not yet at the negotiating phase of this hunt. I have been revising the list of pianos under consideration and noting their respective MSRPs. I would be happy to share the updated list and those numbers, if anyone is interested.

    I expect to get something in the neighborhood of at least one-third off of the MSRPs, and already know that in some cases, the discount will be deeper than that. As with all purchases, it depends on how badly the seller wants to sell and how much the buyer wants that particular piano. Another factor is my personal history with certain dealers, and the fact that there will be no sales commission.

    Alan

    P. S. Are you recommending the Steinway K-52? No one else has, so far.

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-29-2019 19:34
    Hello Alan. No, I'm not recommending the K-52. I only mentioned that piano as I have a few that I service regularly and know a little bit about their pricing. If you do have any MSRP pricing readily available, I'd sure be interested. I just don't know what some of these uprights might go for. Part of the reason for my interest is that I have a 1912 M&H upright that I have gutted and installed a complete redesigned belly (compliments of a very well known Washington State piano designer - think recent Golden Hammer) and new action. I'll likely put it up for sale at some point and was just wondering what an arguably comparable piano might go for.

    ------------------------------
    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-29-2019 20:26
    Piano Buyer current issue has these pricings.....martin      www.snowpianos.com

    K-52 52 Satin Ebony 40,000 40,000
    K-52 52 Mahogany 45,000 45,000
    K-52 52 Walnut 46,700 46,700


    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    South Burlington VT
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-30-2019 00:30
      |   view attached
    Terry,

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Please find the current draft of our shopping list attached.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)



  • 40.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-29-2019 20:40
    The Steinway 1098 is a bit above $35,000 ​ and the K52 is around $43,500.  The most recent 1098s I've seen from New York are exceptional in that there are few to no false beats in the treble.You'd need to be sure that you were looking at ones made within the last 12 - 14 months though as prior to then they were pretty consistent with what we've seen for the last couple decades. If you go to the Hamburg verticals I'd wager you'd find them as nice a vertical as you could hope for.

    ------------------------------
    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
    ------------------------------



  • 41.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-30-2019 00:35
    Hi Karl,

    Thanks for the update on the 1098s. Good news!

    You are the second to recommend Hamburg verticals. The first was a dealer of other high-end brands, honestly answering the question, "What are the best uprights you have ever played?"

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: Great upright needed

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-17-2021 20:06

    List(s),

    This thread was started two years ago. Shopping for a high-end upright piano was a protracted process for a few reasons: lack of ready availability of several models, the client lived far from piano towns, and the pandemic.

    But her search has concluded. She was able to try top-of-the-line models made by Yamaha, Petrof, Seiler, Schimmel, Grotrian, Bluthner, Steingraeber, and Bechstein. Wish that she could have also tried Sauter, Bösendorfer and Hamburg Steinway, but it just didn't work out that way. At this level, it is more a matter of taste than anything else. The client, a professional pianist, had different favorites at different points in the process.

    Her choice in the end was the Schimmel K-132. Preferences among so many fine pianos are subjective, but this is the piano that she liked best overall for touch and tone. It is frosting on the cake that the Schimmel had a list price of tens of thousands of dollars less than some of these other instruments. Of all the pianos she tried, the Schimmel K-132 is the only one that I did not get to hear. Looking forward to it!

    Regular participants in these communities may recall another client of mine several years back who sought a concert or semi-concert grand. After trying many pianos, several of them in other cities, he chose a Schimmel K-280. It is an excellent piano and was also a great value for the price he paid.

    Best,

    Alan

     



    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 43.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-17-2021 20:21
    The Schimmels and Estonias, are really the only European pianos that value a sweet aesthetic, and value an  aesthetic that was common in the US, before harsh became ubiquitous.  Reminds me of the recent soft hammer thread, actually, in terms of the aesthetic that Schimmel presents, aka living room friendly sound.

    I don't deal with uprights much at all, but I have brought in 2 Schimmels, one of them an ebony 130 to refurbish and sell. Both sold instantly. Another 2 clients are asking me to find them one to refurbish as well...hard to find.


    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 44.  RE: Great upright needed

    Posted 07-17-2021 20:28
    You may find the new Hoffman series of uprights to your liking (made in Checkoslovakia by Bechstein).  They
    remind me of Petrof uprights in tone, and their better models incorporate agraffes to note 88.
    They use a Bechstein/Renner type hammer and action, which is quite responsive.

    ------------------------------
    Joël Weber
    Weberpianocare.com
    ------------------------------