CAUT

I use an old-stlye drafting pen to apply a measured amount in a controlled manner (photo attached). I will often make multiple applications to insure the CA glue is surrounding the pin and has not wicked off into the bridge. Then I use dental picks to clean the end of the notch under the string to remove a bead which may have formed. I will also scrape along the wire to remove any glue which might have migrated along the wire, usually no more than a centimeter. Any glue that wicks along the wire on the bridge surface is not a problem but I do use a brass brush to scrub the surface.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 01:17
From: L. Dean Boesen
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

In our recital hall, we have a Steinway B that has more than its share of "false beats."  I've read about using CA glue to secure bridge pins, but I'm unclear as the exact procedure.  Is it merely a substitute for the traditional epoxy application?  I don't believe that you can somehow "wick" the thin stuff in and around the pin without making a mess.  I'm inclined to let the string tension down just enough to access the pins, pull them out, put a drop of medium viscosity CA glue in the hole and reinsert the same pin.

What is the best way that you have found to address this problem?  Many thanks!

Best regards,
Dean
(818) 293-0775

Use thin CA, as I stated in the article, not medium. Thin will soak in
and not be a problem in accumulation on the surface or on the string.
John Parham did a very nice video demonstration to accompany the article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qp14X1Pwr4

It's as simple as it could possibly be.
Ron N


Original Message------

In our recital hall, we have a Steinway B that has more than its share of "false beats."  I've read about using CA glue to secure bridge pins, but I'm unclear as the exact procedure.  Is it merely a substitute for the traditional epoxy application?  I don't believe that you can somehow "wick" the thin stuff in and around the pin without making a mess.  I'm inclined to let the string tension down just enough to access the pins, pull them out, put a drop of medium viscosity CA glue in the hole and reinsert the same pin.

What is the best way that you have found to address this problem?  Many thanks!

Best regards,
Dean
(818) 293-0775

I like the control that a 22 gauge blunt applicator needle gives me for this job.  I don't like flowing CA out to the edge of the notch if I can avoid it.

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 09:05
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Use thin CA, as I stated in the article, not medium. Thin will soak in
and not be a problem in accumulation on the surface or on the string.
John Parham did a very nice video demonstration to accompany the article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qp14X1Pwr4

It's as simple as it could possibly be.
Ron N

Thank you so much for your helpful responses.  I will follow your recommendations to use a controlled applicator.

------------------------------
L. Dean Boesen
Sunland CA
818-293-0775

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 14:59
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

I like the control that a 22 gauge blunt applicator needle gives me for this job.  I don't like flowing CA out to the edge of the notch if I can avoid it.

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 09:05
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Use thin CA, as I stated in the article, not medium. Thin will soak in
and not be a problem in accumulation on the surface or on the string.
John Parham did a very nice video demonstration to accompany the article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qp14X1Pwr4

It's as simple as it could possibly be.
Ron N

Thanks for the link, Ron (and John)! 

I read your articles in the PTJ and it all makes perfect sense to me. Seeing it performed 'live' in the YT-video clip leaves me confident enough to try it out myself. 

Regards, 

Patrick 

------------------------------
Patrick Wingren, RPT
Jakobstad, Finland
0035844-5288048

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 09:05
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Use thin CA, as I stated in the article, not medium. Thin will soak in
and not be a problem in accumulation on the surface or on the string.
John Parham did a very nice video demonstration to accompany the article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qp14X1Pwr4

It's as simple as it could possibly be.
Ron N

Which is precisely why John made the video. It's not nearly as scary and
critical as we tend to assume for anything unfamiliar. Note the
applicator tip John used looks to be the one on the bottle, and how the
CA wicks in without leaving piles of it anywhere. Note that CA pours
into the notch, where it promptly soaks in without drama or detriment.
Go for it. Do what the video shows, and I think you'll be pleased (if
you don't glue yourself to something (it IS CA, after all)).

Ron N


Original Message------

Thanks for the link, Ron (and John)! 

I read your articles in the PTJ and it all makes perfect sense to me. Seeing it performed 'live' in the YT-video clip leaves me confident enough to try it out myself. 

Regards, 

Patrick 

------------------------------
Patrick Wingren, RPT
Jakobstad, Finland
0035844-5288048
------------------------------

Thanks for the link to the video. I didn't realize that it was there. He put in a lot more CA glue than I have in the past - perhaps I don't need to be too tentative. For me, the biggest problem is the discolouring of the bridge top in grand pianos. I don't suppose that there is any way around that, though.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2016 15:18
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Which is precisely why John made the video. It's not nearly as scary and
critical as we tend to assume for anything unfamiliar. Note the
applicator tip John used looks to be the one on the bottle, and how the
CA wicks in without leaving piles of it anywhere. Note that CA pours
into the notch, where it promptly soaks in without drama or detriment.
Go for it. Do what the video shows, and I think you'll be pleased (if
you don't glue yourself to something (it IS CA, after all)).

Ron N

I most often do whole sections, typically both capo sections. I brush the dust off the bridge top first, then just apply to the back of each pin. If the result looks uneven (and it matters), I apply some more so the whole surface has been wetted a bit. Then it has just a bit more sheen than the rest, but isn't at all noticeable, since the rest is on the other side of a strut. The looks are typically a non-issue.

Of course, if you are doing a fancy concert instrument, that might be a different matter, depending on the venue. But even there, the option of getting the whole black surface wet will serve - as long as you start dust free.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2016 15:54
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Thanks for the link to the video. I didn't realize that it was there. He put in a lot more CA glue than I have in the past - perhaps I don't need to be too tentative. For me, the biggest problem is the discolouring of the bridge top in grand pianos. I don't suppose that there is any way around that, though.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2016 15:18
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Which is precisely why John made the video. It's not nearly as scary and
critical as we tend to assume for anything unfamiliar. Note the
applicator tip John used looks to be the one on the bottle, and how the
CA wicks in without leaving piles of it anywhere. Note that CA pours
into the notch, where it promptly soaks in without drama or detriment.
Go for it. Do what the video shows, and I think you'll be pleased (if
you don't glue yourself to something (it IS CA, after all)).

Ron N

Totally agree with Ron. It's not a technically critical procedure. If it starts to pool just wick up the excess with the corner of a paper towel. 

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320

Original Message:
Sent: 10-29-2016 15:18
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Which is precisely why John made the video. It's not nearly as scary and
critical as we tend to assume for anything unfamiliar. Note the
applicator tip John used looks to be the one on the bottle, and how the
CA wicks in without leaving piles of it anywhere. Note that CA pours
into the notch, where it promptly soaks in without drama or detriment.
Go for it. Do what the video shows, and I think you'll be pleased (if
you don't glue yourself to something (it IS CA, after all)).

Ron N

Thank you for this thread. I have been wondering about applying CA to bridge pins also. There is a lot of false beating going on where I am at. This particular bridge has some small splitting and a noticeable gap accompanying the bridge pins. What is your take on the way this looks? Is it a typical candidate for the CA treatment or perhaps another approach? Is there any consideration for the timing of the application? I've read that flash beats my wax and want with the RH and the seasons. Would there be a more ideal time to apply the glue such as when the gaps are greater (dry season)?? Perhaps the when is not an issue. Thank you!

------------------------------
Cory Jacobson
Campbellsport WI
262-689-6043
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 01:17
From: L. Dean Boesen
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

In our recital hall, we have a Steinway B that has more than its share of "false beats."  I've read about using CA glue to secure bridge pins, but I'm unclear as the exact procedure.  Is it merely a substitute for the traditional epoxy application?  I don't believe that you can somehow "wick" the thin stuff in and around the pin without making a mess.  I'm inclined to let the string tension down just enough to access the pins, pull them out, put a drop of medium viscosity CA glue in the hole and reinsert the same pin.

What is the best way that you have found to address this problem?  Many thanks!

Best regards,
Dean
(818) 293-0775

I would highly recommend reading the article in the Journal on this, by Ron Nossaman. It was just a few years ago I believe. 
There is a ton of information on this on the various forums such as Pianotech. However, I would drop the tension enough to remove the pin. Perhaps enough to slightly turn the pin just a tad in order to have a new spot on the pin-if you think this is needed. But there is a fairly good consensus that if one is VERY carful & does it properly, thin CA can be applied in such a way that the glue runs down into the bridge pins holes & tightens them enough to make them really nice & firm-and many times corrects or greatly reduces the problem.  It may take more than one application-but try not to let any run down! Must have a paper towel or similar READY or even some "stuffed" in there at the right spot to prevent messes/mayhem, etc. Hope this helps a little-perhaps it will get things rolling if nothing else. 
Best!

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-23-2019 13:18
From: Cory Jacobson
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Thank you for this thread. I have been wondering about applying CA to bridge pins also. There is a lot of false beating going on where I am at. This particular bridge has some small splitting and a noticeable gap accompanying the bridge pins. What is your take on the way this looks? Is it a typical candidate for the CA treatment or perhaps another approach? Is there any consideration for the timing of the application? I've read that flash beats my wax and want with the RH and the seasons. Would there be a more ideal time to apply the glue such as when the gaps are greater (dry season)?? Perhaps the when is not an issue. Thank you!

------------------------------
Cory Jacobson
Campbellsport WI
262-689-6043

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 01:17
From: L. Dean Boesen
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

In our recital hall, we have a Steinway B that has more than its share of "false beats."  I've read about using CA glue to secure bridge pins, but I'm unclear as the exact procedure.  Is it merely a substitute for the traditional epoxy application?  I don't believe that you can somehow "wick" the thin stuff in and around the pin without making a mess.  I'm inclined to let the string tension down just enough to access the pins, pull them out, put a drop of medium viscosity CA glue in the hole and reinsert the same pin.

What is the best way that you have found to address this problem?  Many thanks!

Best regards,
Dean
(818) 293-0775

Aarggh!! Correction: I intended to say "I would NOT  drop the tension enough to remove the pin". So sorry for the TYPO/auto correct! 
If enough excess glue is dropped, or for some other reason the tension needs to be dropped, THEN make that decision afterward & figure it all out. But why drop the tension if you do not need to?? And in most cases you will not need to in order to correct a false beat, zing or buzz associated with a typical loose bridge pin issue.

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-23-2019 14:00
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

I would highly recommend reading the article in the Journal on this, by Ron Nossaman. It was just a few years ago I believe.
There is a ton of information on this on the various forums such as Pianotech. However, I would drop the tension enough to remove the pin. Perhaps enough to slightly turn the pin just a tad in order to have a new spot on the pin-if you think this is needed. But there is a fairly good consensus that if one is VERY carful & does it properly, thin CA can be applied in such a way that the glue runs down into the bridge pins holes & tightens them enough to make them really nice & firm-and many times corrects or greatly reduces the problem.  It may take more than one application-but try not to let any run down! Must have a paper towel or similar READY or even some "stuffed" in there at the right spot to prevent messes/mayhem, etc. Hope this helps a little-perhaps it will get things rolling if nothing else.
Best!

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 04-23-2019 13:18
From: Cory Jacobson
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

Thank you for this thread. I have been wondering about applying CA to bridge pins also. There is a lot of false beating going on where I am at. This particular bridge has some small splitting and a noticeable gap accompanying the bridge pins. What is your take on the way this looks? Is it a typical candidate for the CA treatment or perhaps another approach? Is there any consideration for the timing of the application? I've read that flash beats my wax and want with the RH and the seasons. Would there be a more ideal time to apply the glue such as when the gaps are greater (dry season)?? Perhaps the when is not an issue. Thank you!

------------------------------
Cory Jacobson
Campbellsport WI
262-689-6043

Original Message:
Sent: 10-28-2016 01:17
From: L. Dean Boesen
Subject: False Beats/Loose Bridge Pins

In our recital hall, we have a Steinway B that has more than its share of "false beats."  I've read about using CA glue to secure bridge pins, but I'm unclear as the exact procedure.  Is it merely a substitute for the traditional epoxy application?  I don't believe that you can somehow "wick" the thin stuff in and around the pin without making a mess.  I'm inclined to let the string tension down just enough to access the pins, pull them out, put a drop of medium viscosity CA glue in the hole and reinsert the same pin.

What is the best way that you have found to address this problem?  Many thanks!

Best regards,
Dean
(818) 293-0775