CAUT

  • 1.  Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-27-2021 14:23
    Hi All,
     
    I don't work on many antique pianos, but I've had 3 Viennese grands in the last two weeks! Two I was able to tune (to themselves). The third was this L Reisinger grand, which I was called on to confirm its broken plate. The owner had been told it had a "broken pressure bar" by the last tuner, who, incidentally, chose to tune all sections of the piano except the top one!
     
    According to the owner, the piano was fine until someone in the recent past tried to tune it to A440, which is when the top treble plate strut broke at both ends. This poor piano... somebody restrung it and put in #6 tuning pins (sigh). I did my best to tell the owner the piano was "done", and perhaps even unsafe. But her family company builds footings for major suspension bridges, and she can't believe this little metal plate can't be fixed. So I told her I would ask my cronies, er, colleagues, if anyone we know is fixing things like this?
     
    Thank you,
     
    Teri

    Virus-free. www.avg.com


  • 2.  RE: Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)

    Posted 06-28-2021 01:33

    A few years back I repaired a S&S S strut using the Lock N Stitch technology. Worked well. I have some pictures of the process, if they are interested. The university bought the kit, which cost about $1000.  

    But the question I would have to ask is whether that piano is worth the cost of the repair.

    Alan McCoy

    Metal Stitching & Thread Repair Inserts. - Turlock , CA - LOCK-N-STITCH, Inc

    Locknstitch remove preview
    Metal Stitching & Thread Repair Inserts. - Turlock , CA - LOCK-N-STITCH, Inc
    Casting Repair Services Repair Industries & Portfolio Products Crack Repair Tools & Supplies Products "The Ultimate Thread Repair" Understanding Cast Iron Cast iron only cracks when it is stressed beyond its tensile strength. This includes all heat related cracks, freeze cracks, impact and bending loads. Cast iron does not weaken over time.
    View this on Locknstitch >






    ------------------------------
    Alan McCoy
    Spokane WA
    ahm2352@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)

    Member
    Posted 06-28-2021 10:07
    In theory a highly skilled welder using an appropriate welding procedure may be able to weld cast iron. Likelihood of success if very low and you won't be able to tell until piano has been re-strung and brought up to pitch (after all their money has been spent). We did have a crack successfully weld repaired in a plate strut; this probably should be considered a exception. Old cast iron has lots of "trash" in it and when it melts (due to welding) these inclusions come to the surface and prevent a good weld. Heating of the adjacent metal (heat affected zone) during welding also changes the metallurgy and makes is brittle.  This is not your problem, so don't spend a lot of productive time chasing it down a rabbit hole. If customer works for engineering firms that build bridges, then they can inquire with their vendors' resources about welding cast iron for references.

    ------------------------------
    John Ginter
    La Grange TX
    832-722-3033
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-28-2021 11:14
    If cost is not a consideration, what would come to mind for me is to replace the cast part with a bolted capo bar as in many fine German/Austrian pianos. That would require machining away some metal and fabricating the bar. 

    I wouldn't seriously consider doing it here, just throwing out the thought in case there might be a piano of enough value that this solution might actually make sense. Those breaks essentially remove a single cast capo bar,
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "A mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." Plutarch













  • 5.  RE: Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-28-2021 12:03
    Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experience. I do believe it *could* be repaired somehow, but in my opinion this piano is not worth that effort or expense. The owner really loves the case, so I'm encouraging her to put some of the case parts to other decorative use, or perhaps even replace the keyboard with a synth. Thanks for the moral support!
     
    Teri
     
     
    If cost is not a consideration, what would come to mind for me is to replace the cast part with a bolted capo bar as in many fine German/Austrian... -posted to the "CAUT" community
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    Re: Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)
    Reply to Group Reply to Sender
    Jun 28, 2021 11:14 AM
    Fred Sturm
    If cost is not a consideration, what would come to mind for me is to replace the cast part with a bolted capo bar as in many fine German/Austrian pianos. That would require machining away some metal and fabricating the bar. 
     
    I wouldn't seriously consider doing it here, just throwing out the thought in case there might be a piano of enough value that this solution might actually make sense. Those breaks essentially remove a single cast capo bar,
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "A mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." Plutarch



     
     


     


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    Original Message:
    Sent: 6/28/2021 10:07:00 AM
    From: John Ginter
    Subject: RE: Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)

    In theory a highly skilled welder using an appropriate welding procedure may be able to weld cast iron. Likelihood of success if very low and you won't be able to tell until piano has been re-strung and brought up to pitch (after all their money has been spent). We did have a crack successfully weld repaired in a plate strut; this probably should be considered a exception. Old cast iron has lots of "trash" in it and when it melts (due to welding) these inclusions come to the surface and prevent a good weld. Heating of the adjacent metal (heat affected zone) during welding also changes the metallurgy and makes is brittle.  This is not your problem, so don't spend a lot of productive time chasing it down a rabbit hole. If customer works for engineering firms that build bridges, then they can inquire with their vendors' resources about welding cast iron for references.

    ------------------------------
    John Ginter
    La Grange TX
    832-722-3033
    ------------------------------



     
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  • 6.  RE: Broken Plate: L Reisinger Viennese Grand (Palos Verdes, CA)

    Posted 06-28-2021 12:22
    Teri,

    What year is the Viennese piano? If it's an early one the plate may be wrought iron not cast iron.

    Stephen Birkett
    Waterloo ON
    Canana