Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

Although I have not see hammer "banana peel" on Renners I have encountered it many times here on the coast of South Carolina. High humidity seems to be the common denominator and Baldwins seemed to be the piano in several situations in some schools. A teacher owned Horugel had peeling from the bottom and a client with a nice Baldwin Hamilton upright . The piano had been left in an un-airconditioned room when the house was being renovated. Two other pianos had been in homes that got flooded out and the hammer felts absorbed the moisture laden ambient air. I think any piano hammer can come free of the molding given the right circumstances. I looked at many pianos that were flood victims and in one case used moisture meters to measure the amount of moisture in the case, bottom board, soundboard. The meters pegged out or showed high levels of moistures and hammers showed as much moisture as the wood parts that sat in water.

Regarding staples in hammers I recall reading that they did not make a difference . Once the glue bond is compromised the felt lifts away from the moulding/core although the staple helps the felt to stay attached. I have pictures someplace that I can post. In your case what was the environment the pianos were in ? Churches in particular here like to deep cycle the air condition and some customers like to open the windows and let in the ocean air. Maybe its not the hammers

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 07:30
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

Original Message------

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

Terri

In both of my piano, the players were very good, so I replaced the hammers with Abel's from Brooks.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 07:30
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

About all one can do is CA the felt back onto the molding. In one case, I ate the cost and purchased another set of hammers from Ronsen, as I warranted my installed parts against failure.  I hope Renner is paying attention to this thread.  Overall, I have always liked their hammers and  considered them top tier. But with these issues raising the warning flags, I've had to stop using them.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 13:45
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Terri

In both of my piano, the players were very good, so I replaced the hammers with Abel's from Brooks.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 07:30
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

Tom,
I'm assuming staples were removed to allow for felt removal, not to eliminate the weight of the staples themselves.  You said you've seen a number of examples of this in your area.  Were they, in all cases, situations where staples had been removed?  Did you usually have to reduce weight when using these hammers?  Did you ever try replacing staples with wires after weight removal?

------------------------------
David Skolnik [RPT]
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
917-589-2625
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 15:01
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

About all one can do is CA the felt back onto the molding. In one case, I ate the cost and purchased another set of hammers from Ronsen, as I warranted my installed parts against failure.  I hope Renner is paying attention to this thread.  Overall, I have always liked their hammers and  considered them top tier. But with these issues raising the warning flags, I've had to stop using them.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 13:45
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Terri

In both of my piano, the players were very good, so I replaced the hammers with Abel's from Brooks.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 07:30
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

David. 

Tom can answer in his situation, but the ones I ran into, these were 20 years old hammers from Renner that did not have staples, and it didn't look like there were ever any.  

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 15:40
From: David Skolnik
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Tom,
I'm assuming staples were removed to allow for felt removal, not to eliminate the weight of the staples themselves.  You said you've seen a number of examples of this in your area.  Were they, in all cases, situations where staples had been removed?  Did you usually have to reduce weight when using these hammers?  Did you ever try replacing staples with wires after weight removal?

------------------------------
David Skolnik [RPT]
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
917-589-2625

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 15:01
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

About all one can do is CA the felt back onto the molding. In one case, I ate the cost and purchased another set of hammers from Ronsen, as I warranted my installed parts against failure.  I hope Renner is paying attention to this thread.  Overall, I have always liked their hammers and  considered them top tier. But with these issues raising the warning flags, I've had to stop using them.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 13:45
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Terri

In both of my piano, the players were very good, so I replaced the hammers with Abel's from Brooks.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 07:30
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

Original Message------

David. 

Tom can answer in his situation, but the ones I ran into, these were 20 years old hammers from Renner that did not have staples, and it didn't look like there were ever any.  

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Yes! Have experienced this quite a bit. The tech that preceded me at Texas Tech School of music used quite a few sets of Renner Blues. During my time there I had to glue several hammers that had popped off just to get to the summer and then replaced with new sets of Abel Naturals (mostly). I have also come to the conclusion that I will never again replace hammers without staples. 

Also, the new Renner Blue Points DO have staples! But to my knowledge the regular blues still do not. I agree-this should be a much bigger issue and Renner should have stopped selling these MANY years ago!!

------------------------------
Kevin Fortenberry
Registered Piano Technician
Temple, Texas
806-778-3962
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 18:01
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

All of these sets came with no staples  from Renner USA. I hope that they have made changes to their methods. It's a big black eye for me, the rebuilder of these instruments to go back and have these issues rear their ugly heads.

 

Tom Servinsky 

Registered Piano Technician

Concert Artist Piano Technician

Director/Conductor- Academy Orchestra

Assist. Conductor-Treasure Coast Youth Symphony

Clarinetist-Atlantic Classical Orchestra

tompiano@tomservinsky.com

772 221 1011 office

772 260 7110 cell

 

Original Message------

David. 

Tom can answer in his situation, but the ones I ran into, these were 20 years old hammers from Renner that did not have staples, and it didn't look like there were ever any.  

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message------

All of these sets came with no staples  from Renner USA. I hope that they have made changes to their methods. It's a big black eye for me, the rebuilder of these instruments to go back and have these issues rear their ugly heads.

 

Tom Servinsky 

Registered Piano Technician

Concert Artist Piano Technician

Director/Conductor- Academy Orchestra

Assist. Conductor-Treasure Coast Youth Symphony

Clarinetist-Atlantic Classical Orchestra

tompiano@tomservinsky.com

772 221 1011 office

772 260 7110 cell

 

Fred

In my situation, one set was replaced over 20 years ago, the other more than 30 years ago, both by other technicians. I never gave it a thought the Renner would replace them.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 19:57
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Has anyone contacted Renner? Seems like the polite and responsible thing to do, whether or not you might want them to do something to stand behind their product. 

Regards,

Fred Sturm

fssturm@unm.edu

http://fredsturm.net

www.artoftuning.com

"I am only interested in music that is better than it can be played." Schnabel

Original Message------

All of these sets came with no staples  from Renner USA. I hope that they have made changes to their methods. It's a big black eye for me, the rebuilder of these instruments to go back and have these issues rear their ugly heads.

 

Tom Servinsky 

Registered Piano Technician

Concert Artist Piano Technician

Director/Conductor- Academy Orchestra

Assist. Conductor-Treasure Coast Youth Symphony

Clarinetist-Atlantic Classical Orchestra

tompiano@tomservinsky.com

772 221 1011 office

772 260 7110 cell

 

Original Message------

On Baldwin products I will CA glue up to 8 or so hammers.  But on Renners, if a few are separated, more are soon to follow.  Also, CA glue will alter the tone of hammer.  On an upright that might not be such a big deal.  But on a high quality piano, played by a good pianist, replacing the whole set might be the only option.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 15:01
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

About all one can do is CA the felt back onto the molding. In one case, I ate the cost and purchased another set of hammers from Ronsen, as I warranted my installed parts against failure.  I hope Renner is paying attention to this thread.  Overall, I have always liked their hammers and  considered them top tier. But with these issues raising the warning flags, I've had to stop using them.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 13:45
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Terri

In both of my piano, the players were very good, so I replaced the hammers with Abel's from Brooks.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 07:30
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

I have seen hammers expolde and pull the staples out with them. The better application would be a twisted wire.
I worked on a Hamburg B many years ago and to take a few tenths off the treble, I pulled the staples. It turned out that the staples were keeping the felt on the moldings as the glue was not holding. I simply reglued the felt to the molding and they are still holding.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 17:48
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Renner hammer failure

On Baldwin products I will CA glue up to 8 or so hammers.  But on Renners, if a few are separated, more are soon to follow.  Also, CA glue will alter the tone of hammer.  On an upright that might not be such a big deal.  But on a high quality piano, played by a good pianist, replacing the whole set might be the only option.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 15:01
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

About all one can do is CA the felt back onto the molding. In one case, I ate the cost and purchased another set of hammers from Ronsen, as I warranted my installed parts against failure.  I hope Renner is paying attention to this thread.  Overall, I have always liked their hammers and  considered them top tier. But with these issues raising the warning flags, I've had to stop using them.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 13:45
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Terri

In both of my piano, the players were very good, so I replaced the hammers with Abel's from Brooks.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2020 07:30
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: Renner hammer failure

Dear List
I've seen a number of the Renner Blue hammers pull apart here in Florida. Have others experienced the same issue in the high humid areas?
I'm fully aware that the staples were eliminated to reduce hammer weight, but have always been suspect that removing the staple takes away the extra support hammers need.   So the question is this the result of no staples or simply a glue failure. Either or, I have seen dozens of these hammers pull apart and wonder if this same issue has been seen in other parts of the country.

------------------------------
Tom Servinsky
------------------------------

Original Message------

I have seen hammers expolde and pull the staples out with them. The better application would be a twisted wire.
I worked on a Hamburg B many years ago and to take a few tenths off the treble, I pulled the staples. It turned out that the staples were keeping the felt on the moldings as the glue was not holding. I simply reglued the felt to the molding and they are still holding.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@pianocapecod.com
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------