If memory serves, Abel’s Steinway shanks are all the same (no difference bass to treble) and are all more or less oval in cross section. They are not as thin as the extra thin shanks sometimes used in the top octaves, but certainly thinner side to side than NY Steinway shanks, which are round in cross section and tapered from flange to hammer.
Since the oval is vertically aligned, there is no significant reduction stiffness with respect to the hammer blow. There could be a wee bit more of a tendency to wobble side to side, but that shouldn’t be a problem if travel and square are reasonably good.
There will be a small (next to insignificant) lowering of strike weight, well below 0.5 grams. I doubt very much the shanks were chosen for that reason, unless one or more of the technicians involved was pretty clueless - which seems likely considering the story of the three day prep after which jiffy leads were found attached to the bottoms of the keys. Would someone “Steinway sent down” replace Steinway shanks with Abels?
The whole story doesn’t add up, and I would be skeptical about accepting any of it. Instead, start by analyzing just exactly what you have:
Is this a new piano? How old, if not? If “purchased from Steinway,” and it isn’t new, that means it came from their rebuilding shop, where Steinway hammers and shanks would have been used. Are they Steinway hammers? (Since they aren’t Steinway shanks, that would lead one to suspect a different hammer - and how could that be if they “bought it from Steinway?”) What is their mass (take sample weights to extrapolate a curve)? What is the touch weight like now? What happens if you remove some of the jiffy leads?
Basically, you would be best to start from scratch and set up the action - now that you have opened the can of worms and convinced the piano prof that there is something wrong. Piling bandaids on top of what is there is a recipe for disaster. It sounds like there were complaints from the beginning, and you are following at least two people who weren’t very competent. Or you are being fed a very inaccurate story about the provenance of the piano.
Fred Sturm
fssturm@comcast.netwww.artoftuning.comhttp://fredsturm.net"Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." -Gustav Mahler
Original Message:
Sent: 12/18/2021 2:57:00 PM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: thin shanks
Chris
That’s where I applied the B72. As I said, the tone improved significantly. The professor is meeting me on Monday. I think she’ll notice a difference. I’ll mention the shanks and see what she says.
Sent from my iPhone
Original Message:
Sent: 12/18/2021 2:22:00 PM
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: RE: thin shanks
Ok, the oomph word did it for me. Try what i call a three strike test. Strike a note 3 times (first play it pp, next mf then FFF) if there is no FFF then the core of the hammer is too soft. If that is the case, i would pull the action on its side and apply B-72 on the side of the hammers focusing at the tip of the moulding and avoiding the top of the hammer. Then after it dries, see if that starts to address the lack of oomph.
-chris
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Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Lenoir City, TN
865-986-7720
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-18-2021 12:31
From: Jon Page
Subject: thin shanks
Place the clips at the hammer molding in the bass and part-way thru the tenor. Pick an 'ending shank' in the treble and place a clip about half-way on the shank. Create a tapered clip line from the tenor to treble. Weigh a clip (without the handles), measure action ratio ala Dale's tool. This will tell you how much will be added to the BW. Hopefully the tapered shanks will support the clip. You might have to include a felt or suede wrap under the clip.
If you're lucky, this might be sufficient.
Where were the Jiffy Leads? Under the front or back? Are they still there?
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Regards,
Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
Original Message:
Sent: 12-18-2021 12:05
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks
Chris
When i first tuned the piano in August I noticed that, to me, there just wasn't much oomph, for the lack of a better word. I call it projection. It's a relatively small recital hall, (about 250), on a 30' x 25' stage. The sound is nice and the professor didn't complain until I mentioned that, to me, the piano lacked power. At the time she didn't hear it, but later in the semester she wanted me to do what I thought would improve the tone. So the first thing I did was add B72. That's when I saw the thin shanks. That's where we're at. After adding the B72 and voicing, the piano did have more projection. I'm happy with that, but I'm just wondering if the thin shanks have anything to do with the lack of oomph.
I do like Jon's suggestion of adding clips to some of the shanks and see if that improves the tone even more. Unfortuntely, I don't have any spare shanks lying around because I don't have a shop anymore. Remember, I'm retired and all I have is the tools in my case.
I just want to leave my options open.
Thanks for all the advice.
Merry Christmas
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Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
Original Message:
Sent: 12-18-2021 11:19
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: thin shanks
Two quick questions: Is this thread about the pianos volume instead of projection? As those are two different things. And is this a question of a mismatched impedance? If so, how would this problem be solved from an impedance point of view?
-chris
------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Lenoir City, TN
865-986-7720
Original Message:
Sent: 12-18-2021 11:13
From: Dennis Johnson
Subject: thin shanks
HI-
Unless I missed something, it doesn't add up that a technician sent by Steinway would install non-Steinway parts or modify Steinway shanks in any way. It definitely sounds like something is wrong with the geometry or the overall ratio, or both. I've never seen a factory Steinway that needed additional leads to properly fix anything, but no other comment on that. From my experience, there are likely a combination of factors contributing to the situation, that thicker shanks alone will not fix. That's all.
best
Dennis Johnson
St. Olaf College
Original Message:
Sent: 12/18/2021 9:40:00 AM
From: Wim Blees
Subject: RE: thin shanks
Jon
You asked who installed the shanks. According to the piano professor, about 10 years ago the school bought the piano from Steinway, and they sent down a technician who spent 3 days "prepping" the piano. Six months later the professor complained about the touch, and asked the local tech to see what the problem was. The Steinway tech had added jiffy leads to the bottom of the keys. I susupect the tech also replaced all the shanks at that time.
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Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
Original Message:
Sent: 12-18-2021 07:37
From: Jon Page
Subject: thin shanks
If a clip improves the tone a little; thicker, heavier shanks will improve it more. Who put those shanks on? Speak to them to find out what was their intention and what they hoped to accomplish.
Don't make the mistake of conditioning the felt when it just might be a weight issue.
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Regards,
Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 23:19
From: Edward Foote
Subject: thin shanks
replace one or two with normal shanks, keeping everything else the same, and see if it is the shanks or not.
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Ed Foote RPT
Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 16:46
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks
John
I know they are the wrong shanks. But that's not what I was asking. I want to know what effect they have on voicing and projecting?
Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks
Wrong shanks overall.
------------------------------
Regards,
Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks
I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?
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Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
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