I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Too flexible in the bass and tenor. But if that's what you have to go with.. they can't be too picky.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 16:46
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I know they are the wrong shanks. But that's not what I was asking.  I want to know what effect they have on voicing and projecting?

Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Wrong attempt at keeping the SW down.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: thin shanks

Too flexible in the bass and tenor. But if that's what you have to go with.. they can't be too picky.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 16:46
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I know they are the wrong shanks. But that's not what I was asking.  I want to know what effect they have on voicing and projecting?

Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

John

I appreciate your feed back, but you're not answering the question.
If the thin shanks are the reason for poor projection, then I might be able to get the school to spend the money to put on new shanks. But before I make that proposal, I need to know if that will, indeed, solve the problem.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: thin shanks

Too flexible in the bass and tenor. But if that's what you have to go with.. they can't be too picky.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 16:46
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I know they are the wrong shanks. But that's not what I was asking.  I want to know what effect they have on voicing and projecting?

Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Projection has been a special topic for me after i experienced a rebuild that in every regard was beautiful in tone at the keyboard, but lacked any projection which was easy to hear when stepping away from the piano. In my case the main culprit was excessive downbearing. I brought the piano back to my shop removed all the strings and restrung using my half a degree downbearing method, which is similar to the Baldwin accujust method. Afterwards it became a strong workhorse piano. In my case, i was working with a new board, so i can imagine that an older board can more easily be overwhelmed by excess downbearing.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Lenoir City, TN
865-986-7720
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:56
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I appreciate your feed back, but you're not answering the question.
If the thin shanks are the reason for poor projection, then I might be able to get the school to spend the money to put on new shanks. But before I make that proposal, I need to know if that will, indeed, solve the problem.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: thin shanks

Too flexible in the bass and tenor. But if that's what you have to go with.. they can't be too picky.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 16:46
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I know they are the wrong shanks. But that's not what I was asking.  I want to know what effect they have on voicing and projecting?

Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Chris

That's an interesting story, but excessive downbearing is not what this piano has. It has thin shanks.


------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 20:40
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: thin shanks

Projection has been a special topic for me after i experienced a rebuild that in every regard was beautiful in tone at the keyboard, but lacked any projection which was easy to hear when stepping away from the piano. In my case the main culprit was excessive downbearing. I brought the piano back to my shop removed all the strings and restrung using my half a degree downbearing method, which is similar to the Baldwin accujust method. Afterwards it became a strong workhorse piano. In my case, i was working with a new board, so i can imagine that an older board can more easily be overwhelmed by excess downbearing.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Lenoir City, TN
865-986-7720

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:56
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I appreciate your feed back, but you're not answering the question.
If the thin shanks are the reason for poor projection, then I might be able to get the school to spend the money to put on new shanks. But before I make that proposal, I need to know if that will, indeed, solve the problem.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: thin shanks

Too flexible in the bass and tenor. But if that's what you have to go with.. they can't be too picky.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 16:46
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I know they are the wrong shanks. But that's not what I was asking.  I want to know what effect they have on voicing and projecting?

Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------

Have you measured SW samples across the keyboard? Rather than juicing up the hammers, add shank clips to raise the SW. This will affect the Touch Weight which may be a concern. Are they complaining about the tone?  Heavier hammers have better projection than light hammers. However, if they hear no problem, then there is no problem.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 21:11
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

Chris

That's an interesting story, but excessive downbearing is not what this piano has. It has thin shanks.


------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 20:40
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: thin shanks

Projection has been a special topic for me after i experienced a rebuild that in every regard was beautiful in tone at the keyboard, but lacked any projection which was easy to hear when stepping away from the piano. In my case the main culprit was excessive downbearing. I brought the piano back to my shop removed all the strings and restrung using my half a degree downbearing method, which is similar to the Baldwin accujust method. Afterwards it became a strong workhorse piano. In my case, i was working with a new board, so i can imagine that an older board can more easily be overwhelmed by excess downbearing.

-chris

------------------------------
Chernobieff Piano Restorations
"Where Tone is Key"
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Lenoir City, TN
865-986-7720

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:56
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I appreciate your feed back, but you're not answering the question.
If the thin shanks are the reason for poor projection, then I might be able to get the school to spend the money to put on new shanks. But before I make that proposal, I need to know if that will, indeed, solve the problem.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 18:40
From: Jon Page
Subject: thin shanks

Too flexible in the bass and tenor. But if that's what you have to go with.. they can't be too picky.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 16:46
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

John

I know they are the wrong shanks. But that's not what I was asking.  I want to know what effect they have on voicing and projecting?

Original Message:
Sent: 12/17/2021 4:29:00 PM
From: Jon Page
Subject: RE: thin shanks

Wrong shanks overall.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
mailto:jonpage@comcast.net
http://www.pianocapecod.com

Original Message:
Sent: 12-17-2021 14:02
From: Wim Blees
Subject: thin shanks

I've taken over the tunings at a university. Today I did some voicing on a D in a recital hall. The main problem is a lack of projection from most of the piano except the top octave. The first thing I noticed was that all the shanks, from 1 to 88, are the thin type usually only found in the top trebles. I'm adding some B72 on all the hammers and that is helping some, but would having thin shanks have an effect on projection?

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
St. Augustine, FL 32095
Tnrwim@aol.com
------------------------------