CAUTION: long post
Apologies for the lapse in response and follow-up communication. Have had very limited internet access for the past week.
Old business before new. First, responses to the responders to the OP…
David S.: You wrote, "Did you raise and lower the damper tray manually? Of course you did." Roger that.
Also, I am glad to be able to confirm that there will indeed still be pianos around 17,000 years from now. Count on it!
And as for your observation about our profession being a bottomless bucket of challenges and chances to learn new things (I am taking great liberties at paraphrasing here… When, at age 18, I considered becoming a piano technician, it occurred to me that this could be a profession that would interest, engage, intrigue and reward me for the rest of my life, and that I could probably practice it until I just didn't wake up some day. There was a lot I did not get right when I was 18, but so far, it looks like I nailed this one.
Chris: Thanks for your tip about alternative spring stock.
Joe: Regarding David S.'s suggestion of Neatsfoot oil, it looks to be a good lubricant for leather, but some reviewers caution about long-term effects. Thanks for passing along Bosendorfer's concoction (via Mario) for suspending Teflon in Prolube.
Mario: As David S. pointed out, this piano is from some 17,000 years in the future (;-). As such, the pitman came from the factory with a dowel with plenty of elbow room in the clearance hole in the keybed.
Norm: Thanks for your confirmation of the efficacy of weaving material into the coils of the spring, and for the suggestion to use a paste lubricant when reinstalling.
Debbie: Ditto what I said to Norm. (And that's the second time this week that someone's aggressive spell-correction/dictation software resulted in the alternative fact that pianos are manufactured on the Hawaiian island of Kauai! ;-)
David S. (again, re: Chris' tray spring recipe): Yes, in American piano wire sizes, #20 is 0.045" (nominal wire size, times two, plus five equals wire diameter in thousands of an inch).
Robert: Thanks for your suggestion about accessing the spring end captures without actually removing the spring, and for adding to the chorus mentioning the possibility of intra-coil noise.
Dennis: Thanks for introducing the idea of removing the spring in question altogether, when appropriate.
Israel: Thanks for corroborating Dennis' experience/suggestion.
Doug: Thanks for mentioning the possibility of interference with the damper up-stop rail, and for all of the useful information about the tray spring strength and related issues.
James: Thanks for directing those unfamiliar with the modernization of older Steinways pitman arrangements to the article. A Forstner bit will work for this task, as you mention. So will a large twist bit, which has the advantage of self-centering in the old hole.
Now, for the re-cap of our investigation…
Initially diagnosing this sustain pedal squeak, we worked "from the bottom up" (as the late, great Norman Neblett used to call his damper class), quickly ascertaining that the squeak was NOT coming from these components or interfaces:
the pedal itself
the rod/pedal interface (a rubber sock, in this case)
the rod in its guide-rail bushing (mounted on the lyre posts)
the rod/trap lever interface (metal vs. leather)
the trap lever spring itself, or in its captures
the trap lever pivot
or
the pitman (modern style).
Multiple pairs of ears in different positions all heard the sound as coming from the higher end of the damper tray. It seemed to be coming from near the tray spring, between the tenor and lower treble sections, although we knew that, statistically speaking, the damper tray end pin would also be one of the usual suspects.
After removing the damper tray spring (to test it for noise in isolation), while activating the tray by hand, imagine our surprise when the offending noise was still present! We listened carefully in the vicinity of the two tray end pins. The noise was originating at the bass end of the tray. Like noises emanating from other parts of the piano, the sound was apparently traveling along a piece of wood, only to be heard, ventriloquist-like, somewhere other than where it originated.
Before lubricating the damper tray end pins, I got a notion to lift handfuls of damper underlevers, which enabled us to zero in on the actual source of the problem. This indicated that the noise was not coming from the end pins.
I could just tell you what it was, but wouldn't it be more fun for you to guess? Besides, if no one gets it right away, I will feel less frustrated for not having figured this out faster. (Then again, if several people DO get it right away, I suppose it's back to listening that little devil on my left shoulder who's always insisting that I ain't nuthin' but a charlatan hound dog. ;-)
If you are the first to guess correctly what, specifically, caused the mystery noise, I will present you with a limited edition, original design CalArts-centric "COVID trifecta" t-shirt (sorry, but the only size currently available is a large that runs a bit small).
Alan
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Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2020 23:41
From: James Kelly
Subject: Steinway grand damper tray return spring squeak
September 2000 issue of the Piano Technicians Journal has an article on how to modernize the damper lift dowel by enlarging the hole in the keybed using a Forstner bit and doing other things When I took the spring out the pianist complained about the change so I put it back in. I ordered a new spring but she never had me come back . I did modernize the pitman/lift dowel and it took care of some of the noise.
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James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 08-28-2020 07:40
From: Mario Igrec
Subject: Steinway grand damper tray return spring squeak
Has this piano's pitman in a bushed hole through the keybed been converted to the modern pitman system? If not, that (pitman against bushing, against leather on the tray, and against trapwork leather) is the usual source of noises.
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Mario Igrec, RPT, MM
Chief Piano Technician, The Juilliard School
http://www.pianosinsideout.com
Original Message:
Sent: 08-27-2020 15:09
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Steinway grand damper tray return spring squeak
Greetings List,
Early 19080's Steinway B has a squeak in the sustain pedal. Makes noise in both directions (down and up). We have a fairly high degree of confidence that the sound is coming from the spiral damper tray return spring (i. e., not the tray end pin in the pivot block, and not from the individual dampers themselves). When hunting down a noise, I always start by asking what materials I am hearing.This noise sounds metallic.
Could this be the spring itself? And if so, might weaving bushing cloth into the spring abate the noise? And if that doesn't work, replacing the spring?
It looks like I could get the spring out (without removing the dampers) without too much trouble. How about putting it back in?
If the problem turns out to be not the spring itself, but one or both areas where the spring contacts at either end, it seems like that would necessitate removing the tray (which would mean disengaging, and subsequently re-regulating all of the dampers). Comments about this (other than the pianist would then, for the first time, have a well-regulated back action)?
This is my first encounter with a noise that appears to be emanating from the damper tray return spring, although I do not imagine that this is a problem unique to this particular piano. If others have experience applicable to this situation, I would be grateful for any practical guidance about how best to proceed.
Thanks,
Alan
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Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
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