CAUT

Greetings,
This question concerns a Grotrian 189 grand from 1956. When I first came to the piano something stood out: the angle the low tenor wires made with the agraffes. The piano is rather difficult to tune in that area, and I've gotten the second callback to touch it up. The first was 6 days out from the first tuning, and this last call is 3 weeks out from the last touchup. Are these pianos known to be unstable in the middle section? I'm suspicious of the lateral angle those strings take from the agraffes.

Then there's the business issue. Callbacks are ok with me. If there's a problem, I go back and try to fix it the best I can. No big deal. I have a feeling, though, that this customer is different. It's hard to know what expectations a customer has, especially as the hot, dry weather kicks in (they don't have central air, or at least seldom use it). My next concern is to (nicely) make it clear that I can't forever be on call to run over each time a unison drifts. Small town, a customer I've known for a long time, though not for piano work.

I'm wondering if you've ever gotten trapped by customers who expect free tuning touchups?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

Hi, Scott,

No input on the piano itself, but business-wise:

When someone asked me over 35 years ago if I would “guarantee" my tuning to be stable, I said, “Yes, up until the weather changes. After that, like all piano technicians everywhere, it’s out of my control.” That came as a big surprise to that owner. I never saw any reason to state my position any differently. I would go back if there’s any question in the first couple of weeks, just to see what’s up.

Often, a question like that comes about because they had an experience with someone who tuned and the tuning didn’t last beyond the first good hard playing. Or any playing at all. That’s a different topic to bring up, but it never hurts them to understand that the weather, indoor climate and such factors are beyond our control, and actually do affect the tuning.

Good luck,

Kathy


Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 4:29:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

Greetings,
This question concerns a Grotrian 189 grand from 1956. When I first came to the piano something stood out: the angle the low tenor wires made with the agraffes. The piano is rather difficult to tune in that area, and I've gotten the second callback to touch it up. The first was 6 days out from the first tuning, and this last call is 3 weeks out from the last touchup. Are these pianos known to be unstable in the middle section? I'm suspicious of the lateral angle those strings take from the agraffes.

Then there's the business issue. Callbacks are ok with me. If there's a problem, I go back and try to fix it the best I can. No big deal. I have a feeling, though, that this customer is different. It's hard to know what expectations a customer has, especially as the hot, dry weather kicks in (they don't have central air, or at least seldom use it). My next concern is to (nicely) make it clear that I can't forever be on call to run over each time a unison drifts. Small town, a customer I've known for a long time, though not for piano work.

I'm wondering if you've ever gotten trapped by customers who expect free tuning touchups?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 4:29:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

Greetings,
This question concerns a Grotrian 189 grand from 1956. When I first came to the piano something stood out: the angle the low tenor wires made with the agraffes. The piano is rather difficult to tune in that area, and I've gotten the second callback to touch it up. The first was 6 days out from the first tuning, and this last call is 3 weeks out from the last touchup. Are these pianos known to be unstable in the middle section? I'm suspicious of the lateral angle those strings take from the agraffes.

Then there's the business issue. Callbacks are ok with me. If there's a problem, I go back and try to fix it the best I can. No big deal. I have a feeling, though, that this customer is different. It's hard to know what expectations a customer has, especially as the hot, dry weather kicks in (they don't have central air, or at least seldom use it). My next concern is to (nicely) make it clear that I can't forever be on call to run over each time a unison drifts. Small town, a customer I've known for a long time, though not for piano work.

I'm wondering if you've ever gotten trapped by customers who expect free tuning touchups?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 5:20:00 PM
From: Susan Kline
Subject: RE: Grotrian tuning stability

Hi, Scott

Luckily it doesn't come up very often (not even once in five years?), but I do two call-backs for free, and at the second one I say that if I need to come again I'll have to start charging for a service call, making clear that a service call isn't a full tuning fee. It hasn't been a problem.

Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 4:29:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

Greetings,
This question concerns a Grotrian 189 grand from 1956. When I first came to the piano something stood out: the angle the low tenor wires made with the agraffes. The piano is rather difficult to tune in that area, and I've gotten the second callback to touch it up. The first was 6 days out from the first tuning, and this last call is 3 weeks out from the last touchup. Are these pianos known to be unstable in the middle section? I'm suspicious of the lateral angle those strings take from the agraffes.

Then there's the business issue. Callbacks are ok with me. If there's a problem, I go back and try to fix it the best I can. No big deal. I have a feeling, though, that this customer is different. It's hard to know what expectations a customer has, especially as the hot, dry weather kicks in (they don't have central air, or at least seldom use it). My next concern is to (nicely) make it clear that I can't forever be on call to run over each time a unison drifts. Small town, a customer I've known for a long time, though not for piano work.

I'm wondering if you've ever gotten trapped by customers who expect free tuning touchups?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

The particular design of the piano may make creating stability more challenging, but that doesn't matter to the customer. They rely on us to be the expert and produce a stable tuning. RH change can be a factor, but it isn't usually instantaneous unless it is extreme. In any case, if it is RH related, that is a particular pattern, usually meaning bigger pitch change at breaks (tenor/bass, treble strut), and a fairly consistent pattern of left to right strings in the unisons. If it is RH related, we can educate them about those patterns. It's always a good idea to keep records of RH and Temp at every service call.

I look at call backs having to do with tuning as an opportunity. The first aspect is a chance to see whether my workmanship is up to par. The second is a chance to interact with the customer. The customer needs to be able to trust us, and a willingness to return and try to make things right goes a long way toward building that trust.

OTOH, there are customers who have the notion that they can call on you for a free call back for just about anything, and that kind of customer needs to be educated about limits. Occasionally a customer needs to be fired. You can find out by going back and having that conversation, as well as seeing whether the problem may perhaps be your responsibility. 

Bottom line, it's a balancing act. You can't be a pushover and allow yourself to be trod on, but you need to take the customer's concern seriously. Not always an easy thing to do.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2020 21:20
From: Dennis Johnson
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

Hi Scott-

Sounds like you have 2 seperate questions. Regarding the Grotrian, we have had 2 of them. I don't remember the model numbers but one was a concert grand I rebuilt and eventually was sold several years ago. The other is about 6' and is remarkably stable. I intentionally left it a poor space, up in the chapel balcony, because it is so stable.  Was this piano rebuilt or original? In any case, your other question is probably more interesting. We all have to access our customer's expectations and take control of what we are able to offer.  Granted, occasionally it can get complicated, but you should have a time frame in mind that you are willing to do call backs for stability. I have sometimes compared tunings to carpet cleaning. We can guarantee it is good before we leave, but after that it is out of our control- within reason.  In the unlikely event something happens in a week or two I will take care of it. After a month, that's too late.  If you haven't, try brushing a little CLP lubricant on the felt in front of the agraffes next tuning. That may help. These pianos have a lot of felt with significant bearing in front of the agraffes.  

best,

Dennis. 

--

Dennis Johnson

Piano Technician / Music

Office: 507-786-3587| Mobile: 612-599-6437 
1520 St. Olaf Avenue Northfield, MN 55057

johnsond@stolaf.edu

Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 5:20:00 PM
From: Susan Kline
Subject: RE: Grotrian tuning stability

Hi, Scott

Luckily it doesn't come up very often (not even once in five years?), but I do two call-backs for free, and at the second one I say that if I need to come again I'll have to start charging for a service call, making clear that a service call isn't a full tuning fee. It hasn't been a problem.

Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 4:29:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

Greetings,
This question concerns a Grotrian 189 grand from 1956. When I first came to the piano something stood out: the angle the low tenor wires made with the agraffes. The piano is rather difficult to tune in that area, and I've gotten the second callback to touch it up. The first was 6 days out from the first tuning, and this last call is 3 weeks out from the last touchup. Are these pianos known to be unstable in the middle section? I'm suspicious of the lateral angle those strings take from the agraffes.

Then there's the business issue. Callbacks are ok with me. If there's a problem, I go back and try to fix it the best I can. No big deal. I have a feeling, though, that this customer is different. It's hard to know what expectations a customer has, especially as the hot, dry weather kicks in (they don't have central air, or at least seldom use it). My next concern is to (nicely) make it clear that I can't forever be on call to run over each time a unison drifts. Small town, a customer I've known for a long time, though not for piano work.

I'm wondering if you've ever gotten trapped by customers who expect free tuning touchups?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

It helps to measure the indoor temperature and humidity at the time of service and record it (on the invoice, or on a service card in the piano).

People are not used to thinking about indoor humidity; they usually hear about it from the weather report, where they measure it at the airport. Well, most pianos aren’t outside at the airport. It can be raining, but if the piano’s next to the fireplace and the heat’s on, indoor humidity will be low.

—Cy—


Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 4:29:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

Greetings,
This question concerns a Grotrian 189 grand from 1956. When I first came to the piano something stood out: the angle the low tenor wires made with the agraffes. The piano is rather difficult to tune in that area, and I've gotten the second callback to touch it up. The first was 6 days out from the first tuning, and this last call is 3 weeks out from the last touchup. Are these pianos known to be unstable in the middle section? I'm suspicious of the lateral angle those strings take from the agraffes.

Then there's the business issue. Callbacks are ok with me. If there's a problem, I go back and try to fix it the best I can. No big deal. I have a feeling, though, that this customer is different. It's hard to know what expectations a customer has, especially as the hot, dry weather kicks in (they don't have central air, or at least seldom use it). My next concern is to (nicely) make it clear that I can't forever be on call to run over each time a unison drifts. Small town, a customer I've known for a long time, though not for piano work.

I'm wondering if you've ever gotten trapped by customers who expect free tuning touchups?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------

I agree with comments made by all especially Fred and Cy.  It pays to keep notes on your service records and is a good business practice. Taking temperature and r/h readings regardless of the time of the year is a good practice . If I suspect there are rh issues I will bring it up. Because I go in and out of so many places I can often feel and smell there is a problem. Many people want to shut off their ac when they go on vacation or set it at some crazy setting. In the long run they will not save. Their best savings is to have it serviced on a regular basis, change the filters and not mess much with the thermostat. One excellent educational resource for piano clients to know about humidity and pianos is the Dampp-Chaser website .

I have an open mind about callbacks but agree that there are unreasonable clients who will go into spasm and say the piano was not like that before you worked on it. I had a guy here who had a Steinway that needed two pitch adjustments before the fine tuning. Not only that the lyre was hanging on by a thread. After I did the work he was telling people I screwed up his piano and it did'nt sound or play the same. I highly recommended a woolen string cover and a dampp chaser system which he ultimately got from someone else. Oh yeah I also recommended some action regulation which it badly needed.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Owner- Fur Elise Piano Service
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-21-2020 00:52
From: Cy Shuster
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

It helps to measure the indoor temperature and humidity at the time of service and record it (on the invoice, or on a service card in the piano).

People are not used to thinking about indoor humidity; they usually hear about it from the weather report, where they measure it at the airport. Well, most pianos aren't outside at the airport. It can be raining, but if the piano's next to the fireplace and the heat's on, indoor humidity will be low.

-Cy
Original Message:
Sent: 7/20/2020 4:29:00 PM
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Grotrian tuning stability

Greetings,
This question concerns a Grotrian 189 grand from 1956. When I first came to the piano something stood out: the angle the low tenor wires made with the agraffes. The piano is rather difficult to tune in that area, and I've gotten the second callback to touch it up. The first was 6 days out from the first tuning, and this last call is 3 weeks out from the last touchup. Are these pianos known to be unstable in the middle section? I'm suspicious of the lateral angle those strings take from the agraffes.

Then there's the business issue. Callbacks are ok with me. If there's a problem, I go back and try to fix it the best I can. No big deal. I have a feeling, though, that this customer is different. It's hard to know what expectations a customer has, especially as the hot, dry weather kicks in (they don't have central air, or at least seldom use it). My next concern is to (nicely) make it clear that I can't forever be on call to run over each time a unison drifts. Small town, a customer I've known for a long time, though not for piano work.

I'm wondering if you've ever gotten trapped by customers who expect free tuning touchups?

------------------------------
Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
------------------------------