Pianotech

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

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Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
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G for Goggan.

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Patrick Draine
Billerica MA
978-663-9690
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2019 04:59
From: Ron Bergeron
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

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Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
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As Pat said, the G obviously stands for Goggan. the customer either misunderstood, or the tech was pulling his/her leg.

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Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2019 04:59
From: Ron Bergeron
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

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Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
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Ah!  Consensus is a beautiful thing.  I think he made it up because the piano was over a full step flat and he didn't want to mess with it so he found a reason not to..."hey, Mr  Customer,  it's SUPPOSED to sound like this!"

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Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2019 09:20
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

As Pat said, the G obviously stands for Goggan. the customer either misunderstood, or the tech was pulling his/her leg.

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Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2019 04:59
From: Ron Bergeron
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

------------------------------
Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
------------------------------

Original Message------

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

------------------------------
Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
------------------------------

If G was tuned to 440 I suspect there would be a lot of broken strings. That would put A4 at...?

G is for Goggan (obviously).

Pwg

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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2019 11:08
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

Ron,

It looks to me to be a clear case of the model number.

Roger

Original Message------

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

------------------------------
Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
------------------------------

Original Message------

If G was tuned to 440 I suspect there would be a lot of broken strings. That would put A4 at...?

G is for Goggan (obviously).

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

The assumptions I have seen so far have been very incorrect. First, Goggan were not piano manufacturers at all, they were a large Texas piano retalier. (1895- 1925ish). They used several manufacturers to provide them with their name brand. My guess is the G is a code so they would know which was the manufacturer of that particular piano.
-chris

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Troubles are Bubbles, and they just float away.
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Knoxville, TN
865-986-7720
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2019 00:05
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

A few months ago I attended a meeting of forensic mechanical engineers. These are the people who investigate the cause of collapsed bridges, buildings and downed aircraft, etc. I couldn't absorb all the technical information, but my take away from this meeting was; to find the answers to puzzles one must engage in the art of divergent thinking, i.e., in the beginning of an investigation think in broad terms - consider all options.

 

What does this have to do with the "G" on the yoke of the plate? Because we have little to no information about the purpose of the letter "G" you might consider the motivation behind this placement in an area only a piano tuners would normally see. Modern piano manufacturers place serial and model numbers in block letters on the plate and many times their logo. The logo is an ego motivated insertion where the serial number is strictly an informational placement. An ego motivated "G" placement would reasonably reflect the logo of the company. Does the "G" on the plate reflect the font style of the "G" in the fallboard spelling of "Goggan"? 

 

Roger

Original Message------

If G was tuned to 440 I suspect there would be a lot of broken strings. That would put A4 at...?

G is for Goggan (obviously).

Pwg

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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

According to the antique piano shop Goggan was a manufacturer but also had pianos made by other manufacturers Emerson of Boston being one. Perhaps the G branded pianos where built by Goggan . I remember working on a Goggan grand here . If a sales brochure/catalog/ad can be found the mystery could get resolved. Maybe someone will find the same piano with an "E" on the plate for Emerson..... Seems like the brand was popular in the southern states

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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2019 10:48
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

The assumptions I have seen so far have been very incorrect. First, Goggan were not piano manufacturers at all, they were a large Texas piano retalier. (1895- 1925ish). They used several manufacturers to provide them with their name brand. My guess is the G is a code so they would know which was the manufacturer of that particular piano.
-chris

------------------------------
Troubles are Bubbles, and they just float away.
chernobieffpiano.com
grandpianoman@protonmail.com
Knoxville, TN
865-986-7720

Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2019 00:05
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

A few months ago I attended a meeting of forensic mechanical engineers. These are the people who investigate the cause of collapsed bridges, buildings and downed aircraft, etc. I couldn't absorb all the technical information, but my take away from this meeting was; to find the answers to puzzles one must engage in the art of divergent thinking, i.e., in the beginning of an investigation think in broad terms - consider all options.

 

What does this have to do with the "G" on the yoke of the plate? Because we have little to no information about the purpose of the letter "G" you might consider the motivation behind this placement in an area only a piano tuners would normally see. Modern piano manufacturers place serial and model numbers in block letters on the plate and many times their logo. The logo is an ego motivated insertion where the serial number is strictly an informational placement. An ego motivated "G" placement would reasonably reflect the logo of the company. Does the "G" on the plate reflect the font style of the "G" in the fallboard spelling of "Goggan"? 

 

Roger

Original Message------

If G was tuned to 440 I suspect there would be a lot of broken strings. That would put A4 at...?

G is for Goggan (obviously).

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message------

According to the antique piano shop Goggan was a manufacturer but also had pianos made by other manufacturers Emerson of Boston being one. Perhaps the G branded pianos where built by Goggan . I remember working on a Goggan grand here . If a sales brochure/catalog/ad can be found the mystery could get resolved. Maybe someone will find the same piano with an "E" on the plate for Emerson..... Seems like the brand was popular in the southern states

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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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I do not know the validity of what the antique piano shop posted on Goggan which is why I would like to find ads and catalogs or some proof that they actually made/manufactured pianos. I may have a picture of the grand I worked on and I know I treated the loose pin block with CA glue using an industrial glue dispenser to deliver the glue with precise accuracy and minimal fumes. I remember something about Texas being on a sticker . Maybe Emerson made their plates and put G on them to make sure they went into a Goggan piano. Maybe all of Goggan pianos where made by others to their specifications/design and manufacturing is a stretch . I have worked on a Story and Clark grand that was made by Yamaha for Story & Clark which is stated on the plate.
 As stated I have only seen one Goggan - maybe there are many in the Texas area.

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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2019 16:31
From: Chris Chernobieff
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

I question your source as a valid one.

Chernobieff Piano Restorations

Chris Chernobieff ( pronounced chur-no-bif )

Lenoir City, Tennessee 
email: chrisppff@gmail.com

web: chernobieffpiano.com

Follow on:  Facebook

phone: 865-986-7720

Original Message------

According to the antique piano shop Goggan was a manufacturer but also had pianos made by other manufacturers Emerson of Boston being one. Perhaps the G branded pianos where built by Goggan . I remember working on a Goggan grand here . If a sales brochure/catalog/ad can be found the mystery could get resolved. Maybe someone will find the same piano with an "E" on the plate for Emerson..... Seems like the brand was popular in the southern states

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

I googled Goggan upright pianos and got a few hits. One is a picture of the G you posted. It doesn't look like a serial number font, but a brand identifying font.
There is more info to find on Goggan and some discussions, also. I'd google and sleuth as best you can. I didn't see any advertisements with the G front your posted.

On this Goggan (probably an older model) you can see the oval where the serial number would be. I vote that the G is for Goggan and not a tuning reference!



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Richard Adkins
Piano Technician
Coe College
Cedar Rapids, IA
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2019 04:59
From: Ron Bergeron
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

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Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
------------------------------

Thanks everyone.  I'll share the suggestions of the group with my customer.  I'm sure he will be impressed with the wealth of interest that piano-tech-nerds have in solving our industry's mysteries.

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Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2019 13:06
From: Richard Adkins
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

I googled Goggan upright pianos and got a few hits. One is a picture of the G you posted. It doesn't look like a serial number font, but a brand identifying font.
There is more info to find on Goggan and some discussions, also. I'd google and sleuth as best you can. I didn't see any advertisements with the G front your posted.

On this Goggan (probably an older model) you can see the oval where the serial number would be. I vote that the G is for Goggan and not a tuning reference!



------------------------------
Richard Adkins
Piano Technician
Coe College
Cedar Rapids, IA

Original Message:
Sent: 09-13-2019 04:59
From: Ron Bergeron
Subject: Goggan Bro. Upright mystery

Does anyone have an idea what the "G" stands for on this late 1800's Groggan Brothers upright means?  My customer was told by an earlier technician stated that it meant the piano was supposed to be tuned to G440.  I think he just made it up, but told the customer I would post the question to this site and see what responses we get.

------------------------------
Ron Bergeron, RPT
Austin, Texas
------------------------------